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Hi Martin,
I think this is the 1891 fellow.
Marriages Mar 1885 (>99%)
Elstone Florence Eliza Lambeth 1d 493
Walker William Peto Lambeth 1d 493

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about William Pete Walker
Name: William Pete Walker
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Spouse Name: Florence Eliza Elstone
Spouse Age: 22
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 28 Jan 1885
Parish: St Mary at Lambeth
County: Surrey
Borough: Lambeth
Father Name: William John Pilkington Walker
Spouse Father Name: Gilbert Elstone

1911 census transcription details for: 7 Westbourne Road Sydenham S E
RG14PN3681 RG78PN138 RD42 SD2 ED28 SN155


Reg. District: Bromley Sub District: Beckenham
Parish: Beckenham Enum. District: 28
Address: 7 Westbourne Road Sydenham S E
County: Kent

WALKER, William Pets Head Married M 46 1865 Mechanical
Engineer London Stockwell
WALKER, Florence Eliza Wife Married
25 years F 50 1861 London Clapham
WALKER, Helen Gertrude Daughter Single F 23 1888 London Brixton

Good luck with your research!!

Maureen

Hi, Maureen,

I think what I need to do is take away your suggestion & have a good read through, comparing it to what I know for certain. I really do appreciate your assistance & if this does prove to be the elusive William, then happier I could not be!!!

Best regards,
Martin

Hi,

He's based at Mackenzie Road, Bromley which I have ASSUMED is the same William Walker that appeared in the 1881 census...but we all know what "assuming" can do!!

I "assumed" that a William Downham born in 1865 was the right one several years ago & took me off on a wasted 18 months of research!

I don't know. I'm still favouring this:

1861 census transcription details for: 12, ..., York Street, Lambeth
RG number: RG09 Piece: 349 Folio: 54 Page: 3


Reg. District: Lambeth Sub District: 2 Waterloo Road Second
Parish: Lambeth Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District: All Saints City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 12, ..., York Street, Lambeth
County: London, Surrey

DOWNHAM, Richard Head Married M 29 1832 Dairyman
...
...
DOWNHAM, Mary Ann Wife Married F 24 1837
Lambeth
DOWNHAM, Richard Son Unmarried M 2 1859
Lambeth
DOWNHAM, Maria Daughter F 0 (4M) 1861
Lambeth
..............
Richard dies.
Deaths Jun 1865
Downham Richard Lambeth 1d 179

...............
Mary Ann re-marries. Sept. 1866 -AFTER the birth of William. All the children are listed as Walker in 1871.
1871 census transcription details for: York St (Dairy), Lambeth

RG number: RG10 Piece: 651 Folio: 60 Page: 5


Reg. District: Lambeth Sub District: Waterloo Second Part
Parish: Lambeth Enum. District: 3
Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough:
Address: York St (Dairy), Lambeth
County: London, Surrey


WALKER, John Head M 28 1843 Scotland
WALKER, Mary Wife F 30 1841 Surrey
WALKER, Richard Son M 12 1859 Surrey
WALKER, Amelia Daughter F 10 1861 Surrey
WALKER, Robert Son M 8 1863 Scotland
WALKER, James Son M 8 1863 Scotland
WALKER, William Son M 6 1865 Surrey
WALKER, John Son M 4 1867 Surrey
WALKER, Lillis Daughter F 2 1869 Surrey
WALKER, Mary Daughter F 0 1871 Surrey


Maureen

Which William Walker are you looking at in 1891 please?

Maureen

Hi,

I've had a look at this suggestion and while food for thought, I don't THINK it's a connection. I understand the Downham/Walker proposal but I suspect that the William Walker that appears on the 1881 census also appears on the 1891 census, where William Downham also appears with the correct spouse & children (the latter I can take as 100% certain as I have my grandfather's diary - James Downham who has listed a few key family births, deaths & marriages of his family). So it really is a puzzler. As I said, all the more frustrating as my maternal tree goes back to Germany & the 1800's with no problem! Any other suggestions?

Many thanks all!
Martin..........x

This could be Richards death.
On marriage image it says he is a cow keeper.

Could this be Mary Ann's first marriage?

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Richard Downham Name: Richard Downham
Age: Full Age
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Spouse Name: Mary Ann Smith
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 19 Sep 1856
Parish: St John the Evangelist, Lambeth
County: Surrey
Borough: Lambeth
Father Name: Edward Downham

Hi, there....

That's certainly something to consider? I'll have a good look when I log back in this evening!!!

Thanks again everybody!

The father's name wasn't Richard was it?

I keep wondering about this family:
1881 England Census about William Walker
Name: William Walker
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John Walker
Mother's Name: Mary Ann Walker
Gender: Male
Where born: Lambeth, Surrey, England
Civil parish: Camberwell
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 42 Leo Street
Occupation: Office Boy
Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: Peckham
ED, institution, or vessel: 39a
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 690
Folio: 6
Page Number: 6
Household Members:
Name Age
John Walker 37
Mary Ann Walker 37
William Walker 16
John Walker 14
Lillies Walker 12
Mary Ann Walker 10
Harry Walker 6
Alfred Walker 3
Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 690; Folio: 6; Page: 6; GSU roll: 1341160.

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Mary Ann Downham
Name: Mary Ann Downham widow
Spouse Name: John Walker
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 29 Jul 1866
Parish: St John the Evangelist, Lambeth
County: Surrey
Borough: Lambeth
Father Name: John Downham (John Smith on image)
Spouse Father Name: Robert Walker

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Mary Ann Smith
Name: Mary Ann Smith Father John Smith
Spouse Name: Richard Downham
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 19 Sep 1856
Parish: St John the Evangelist, Lambeth
County: Surrey
Borough: Lambeth
Spouse Father Name: Edward Downham

I've seen cases where the step father's first name and the real father's surname are given on the marriage cert.

Maureen

Hi,

Thanks everybody for the responses - much appreciated. I dip in & out of this family research thing. I've had a house move since I obtained the certificate so can I find it now? No...I've just checked all my box files of research but it's not there. FROM MEMORY, I think it was George but I could be wrong.

It's odd that William isn't on the logical census returns from 1871 onwards? He makes an appearance, fully formed with the family in 1901 & 1911 though!!

what names are on the cert for his parents, please?

there seems to be only two Downham births in Lambeth for the year 1865

Georgina
and
William

I suppose, if his father died when he was relatively young, he may not have known his forename.

Or, he may not have known his father's forename anyway. If he never heard anyone call his father by his first name ... that might have happened.

I keep coming across a John of about the right age with a father James ...

Jill

martin
what names were on the cert

if you go to free bdm

Enter surname Downham (leave first name blank)
select all types,
district Lambeth

and the years you want, lots of Downhams come up.

Hi, Choccy,

I actually ordered that certificate a while ago, full of expectation...and the parents are 'wrong' (i.e. his father is not listed as John Downham). Maybe I'm placing too much trust in John as being his actual father? Maybe he was illegitimate & made up a name? Or maybe William was his middle name? It's so frustrating as my mum's side of the tree I've traced back to Germany with ease! But can I find a London ancestor? No...!

best idea would be to order the birth cert for the above reference
GRO vol 1d page 289

that will tell you his father;s name etc

have you eliminated this one ?


England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915

Name: William Downham
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1865
Registration district: Lambeth
Inferred County: Greater London, London, Surrey
Volume: 1d
Page: 289

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about William Downham
Name: William Downham
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1865
Registration district: Lambeth
Inferred County: Greater London, London, Surrey
Volume: 1d
Page: 289 (click to see