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I see what you mean, Joan.

Marriages Mar 1883 (>99%)
AIREY Mary Ann Pancras 1b 281
Allen Frederic Pancras 1b 281
Chapling James William Pancras 1b 281
NOEL Annie Elizabeth Pancras 1b 281

I presume that the certificate you ordered for James' daughter was for the surname Johnson?

Hi Lynne

Just a quick update (I still haven't had a chance to really look at the James and Mary Ann question). I've just received copy birth certificate for James' daughter and it quotes her mother's maiden name as 'Airey' or 'Avery' (I'm waiting for verification). I've found marriage register entries for James William Chapling and Mary Ann Avery, both 1883 Pancras 1b/281!!

Hi Lynne

I obviously need to go back over it in my mind! I'm trying to follow about 4 different surnames on my tree - probably too much. You know how it is - you get side-tracked.

Thanks. I'll probably be back to you.

Hi, Joan.

What we are looking at now is the possibility of your James William Johnson born c1859 in Hoo actually being James William Chaplin(g) who took the name of his step-father, George Johnson?

After seeing the 1871 census and finding the christening record on familysearch.org it all points to him being born before her marriage doesn't it.

I keep thinking about the 1871 census and I know that other people wrote them out but it would only be the information they were given? Sometimes they got christian names and ages wrong and sometimes they dittoed the wrong surname from the line above but there is something about this that matches that marriage of Mary Ann to George in 1859.

IF (in capital letters) we are on the right track then I wonder what date George and Mary Ann married in Dec Qtr 1858. It would have to be after October?

I have just searched trees on this site and there is a contact who has James Chapling, born 1859 in Hoo, Suffolk. I suggest you contact that person and ask him if you have a match.

Let me know how you go
Regards
Lynne

Hi, Joan.
In your last message you have written 'possibly Mary Ann had an illegitimate baby when she married James'.

I think you might have the Mary Ann's mixed up?

I am talking about Mary Ann who is Jame's mother, not Mary Ann who is his wife.

I'm still a bit boggled by this one. I read it that possibly Mary Ann had an illegitimate baby when she married James? I need birth certificate for James William Chapling to prove one way or the other.

Or have I missed something?

Only just picked up your message (9 am). Off line yesterday evening until about 1 am. Son's friend installing Windows 7 Professional (I had XP). Will get back to you.

Thanks.

Just found this on familysearch.org

James William Chaplin

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

residence: Suffolk, England
parents: Mary Anne Chaplin

record title: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
name: James William Chaplin
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 24 Oct 1858
baptism/christening place: HOO,SUFFOLK,ENGLAND
mother's name: Mary Anne Chaplin
indexing project (batch) number: C13207-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 952461

Hi, Joan.
I can find the births of the other three children in the 1871 census -

Births Sep 1860 (>99%)
JOHNSON Emma Plomesgate 4a 56[9_]

Births Dec 1861 (>99%)
JOHNSON Frederic Plomesgate 4a 591

Births Mar 1864 (>99%)
JOHNSON George Plomesgate 4a 671

The family were living in the district of Plomesgate in 1861 and 1871 so where is the birth for James?

As you say, the only birth for James William is this one -

Births Jun 1859 (>99%)
JOHNSON James William Ipswich 4a 581

I would have thought he would be Plomesgate too but I have checked variant spellings of Johnson and there are no results.

Having said that, the marriage between George Johnson and Mary Ann Chapling is registered in Woodsgate. There is another Mary Ann (Durrant) listed on the same marriage details on FreeBMD but, after seeing the 1871 census, I would rule her out.

It is just so interesting as to why his mother, now widowed in 1871, should put James W. Chapling on that census.

Here is Mary Ann in the 1851 census -

WOODS, Fransis Head Married M 44 1807 Chelsea Pensioner
Kettleburgh
Suffolk
WOODS, Sarah Wife Married F 24 1827
Kettleburgh
Suffolk
WOODS, Hannah Daughter F 7 1844 Scholar
Kettleburgh
Suffolk
WOODS, George Son M 3 1848
Kettleburgh
Suffolk
WOODS, Sarah Ann Daughter F 1 1850
Kettleburgh
Suffolk
STIRKS, Rebecca Mother-In-Law Widow F 70 1781 Nurse
Hoo
Suffolk
CHAPLING, James Head Married M 34 1817 Ag Lab
Letheringham
Suffolk
CHAPLING, Susanna Wife Married F 34 1817
London
Middlesex
CHAPLING, Mary Ann Daughter F 11 1840 Scholar
Letheringham
Suffolk
CHAPLING, Elizabeth Daughter F 9 1842 Scholar
Charsfield
Suffolk
CHAPLING, Eliza Daughter F 6 1845 Scholar
Kettleburgh
Suffolk
RG number:
HO107 Piece:
1802 Folio:
107 Page:
18

Registration District:
Plomesgate Sub District:
Earl Soham Enumeration District:
7 Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
Kettleburgh Municipal Borough:
Address:
Bridge Street, Kettleburgh County:
Suffolk

I have checked whether there are any William Chaplings on the 1871 census and there are only Chaplins but not with the birth year we are looking for.

There is a marriage for a William James O Chaplin in 1882 but I have checked the census and he was born in Kent and his birth year is 1861.

I think there might be a William Chapling in the census so we need to double check that before you order the wrong certificate.
I will have a look in the morning. I am just about to call it a day (I live in Australia).
It was just a coincidence that Mary Ann's maiden name is Chapling. As soon as I find something I will come back to this thread.

Lynne: I'm not sure where to go with James William (William James) Johnson/Chapling? I previously searched for James William Johnson 1859 +/- 2 yrs and only came up with James William(s) Johnson 1859 2nd Qtr. IPSWICH 4a 581.

I suppose the best thing is to try to obtain actual Birth Cert for Chapling and Johnson?

I'm still going through. Some of the census details I had but the marriage details and non-direct line of descent I hadn't found yet. They've given me whole new avenues to work on!

Thanks very much for your help.

You've given me so much info, I'll need to assimilate - my brain's gone into overload! I'm new to the game, so not very quick.

Joan,
Before I go any further, can you tell me if any of this is familiar to you? Am I on the right track?

This birth is interesting, the christian names are switched??

Births Dec 1858 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chapling William James Plomesgate 4a 553

Marriage ??
Marriages Dec 1858 (>99%)

Bardwell Elizabeth Woodbridge 4a 1403
***** Chapling Mary Ann Woodbridge 4a 1403
Durrant Mary Ann Woodbridge 4a 1403
***** Johnson George Woodbridge 4a 1403
Lancaster George Woodbridge 4a 1403

1871 CENSUS -

JOHNSON, Mary Ann Head F 30 1841 Suffolk
CHAPLING, James W Son M 12 1859 Suffolk
JOHNSON, Emma Daughter F 10 1861 Suffolk
JOHNSON, Fredrick Son M 9 1862 Suffolk
JOHNSON, George Son M 7 1864 Suffolk

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG10 Piece:
1761 Folio:
56 Page:
1

Registration District:
Plomesgate Sub District:
Earlsoham Enumeration District:
5 Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Hoo Municipal Borough:
Address:
The Hall, Hoo County:
Suffolk

James' surname is interesting - need to check the orginal

Yes, that's what the original says??

James W. Johnson in 1861 census -
JHONSON, George Head Married M 27 1834 Horseman
Charsfield
Suffolk
JHONSON, Mary Ann Wife F 22 1839
Letheringham
Suffolk
JHONSON, James William Son M 2 1859
Hoo
Suffolk
JHONSON, Emma Daughter F 0 (9M) 1861
Hoo
Suffolk

RG number:
RG09 Piece:
1172 Folio:
68 Page:
3

Registration District:
Plomesgate Sub District:
1 Earl-Soham Enumeration District:
5 B Ecclesiastical Parish:
Norwich

Civil Parish:
Hoo Municipal Borough:
Address:
Hoo County:
Suffolk

Marriage for Mabel Mary Johnson??



Marriages Mar 1910 (>99%)
BROOKS Daniel Percy Hampstead 1a 1193
JOHNSON Mabel Mary Hampstead 1a 1193


Both Herbert Brooks and Daniel P. Brooks are boarding with the Johnson family in 1901 - their marital status shows Married but I think that this is wrong?

1911 CENSUS -

BROOKS, Daniel Percy Head Married M 27 1884 Brewers Drayman Edworth Berfordshire
BROOKS, Mabel Mary Wife Married
2 years F 22 1889 Hampstead London
BROOKS, Harold Albert Son M 0 (10 MONTHS) 1911 Hampstead London

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
606 Reference:
RG14PN606 RG78PN22 RD8 SD1 ED16 SN467

Registration District:
Hampstead Sub District:
Hampstead Enumeration District:
16 Parish:
Hampstead

Address:
33 Roderick Road North St Pancras County:
London

Marriage for Ada A. Johnson??

Marriages Jun 1908 (>99%)
BROOKS Herbert Hampstead 1a 1340
JOHNSON Ada Alice Hampstead 1a 1340



1911 CENSUS -
BROOKS, Herbert Head Married M 29 1882 Railway Engine Stoker Edworth Bedfordshire VIEW
BROOKS, Ada Alice Wife Married
8 years F 27 1884 Hampstead London VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
723 Reference:
RG14PN723 RG78PN25 RD9 SD3 ED13 SN271

Registration District:
St Pancras Sub District:
East St Pancras Enumeration District:
13 Parish:
St Pancras

Address:
150 St Pauls Road St Pancras London N W County:
London