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Thanks Christine - I should have checked that !

Looks as if that Patrick died Mike.

Deaths Mar 1897 (>99%)
Tobin Patrick 0 Manchester 8d 187

Christine

It appears that this Henry was married to Caroline in 1891.

1891 England Census
about Henry Lilley
Name: Henry Lilley
Age: 38
Estimated birth year: abt 1853
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Caroline Lilley
Gender: Male
Where born: Weddington, Derbyshire, England

Civil Parish: Matlock
Ecclesiastical parish: Matlock Bank All Saints
Town: Matlock
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England

Street address:

Registration district: Bakewell
Sub-registration district: Matlock
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Lilley 38
Caroline Lilley 35
John Henry Lilley 16
Caroline B Lilley 11

What is the occupation of Henry from Patrick's marriage cert?

Christine

Was he born before mother married ?


Births Mar 1897 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tobin Patrick - Manchester 8d 280

1911


Person: LILLEY, Percy
Address: 15 Bremner St C-On-M Manchester

Cost:
You will be charged 10 credits for a transcript and 30 credits for an image, unless you have purchased a subscription for this set of records.


LILLEY, Henry Head Married M 58 1853 Horsekeeper Derbyshire Wessington VIEW
LILLEY, Teresa Wife Married
20 years F 38 1873 Ireland Co Roscommon VIEW
LILLEY, Thomas Son Single M 15 1896 Trolley Boy Lancs Manchester VIEW
LILLEY, Percy Son Single M 13 1898 Errand Boy Lancs Manchester VIEW
LILLEY, Teresa Daughter Single F 10 1901 Lancs Manchester VIEW
LILLEY, Kathleen Daughter Single F 8 1903 Lancs Manchester VIEW
LILLEY, Frederick Son Single M 6 1905 Lancs Manchester VIEW
LILLEY, Winifred Daughter Single F 3 1908 Lancs Manchester VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
23844 Reference:
RG14PN23844 RG78PN1379 RD464 SD3 ED16 SN231

Registration District:
Chorlton Sub District:
Chorlton upon Medlock Enumeration District:
16 Parish:
South Manchester

Births Sep 1900 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lilley Theresa Josephine Chorlton 8c 823

This looks like Percy in 1901 but mother is Teresa.

1901 England Census
about Percy Lilly
Name: Percy Lilly
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1898
Relation: Son
Father's name: Henry Lilly
Mother's name: Teresa Lilly
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: South Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: Ardwick St Thomas
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England



Registration district: Chorlton
Sub-registration district: Ardwick
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 161
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Lilly 48
Teresa Lilly 31 born Ireland
Rose Lilly 9
Thomas Lilly 5
Percy Lilly 3
Teresa Lilly 9 Months
Joseph Lurey 28
James Walker 22
George Scott 21
Robert Dalgetty 20

Christine

1901 matching the birth................

I'd dug this out earlier, but decided to discount it..........however.............here it is for consideration

Teresa born IRELAND

Name: Percy Lilly
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1898
Relation: Son
Father's name: Henry Lilly
Mother's name: Teresa Lilly
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: South Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: Ardwick St Thomas
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England


Registration district: Chorlton
Sub-registration district: Ardwick
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 161
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Lilly 48 b. Wessington, Derbyshire
Teresa Lilly 31
Rose Lilly 9
Thomas Lilly 5
Percy Lilly 3
Teresa Lilly 9 Months
Joseph Lurey 28
James Walker 22
George Scott 21
Robert Dalgetty 20

quite a few RC church registers give a wealth of detail, not only the mother's maiden name but sometimes her parents too.

If I get to the Lancs RO in the next couple of weeks I will try looking for you if you wish. The baptism records are there.

Just send me a message with the relevant details summarised

This looks like the full GRO reference for the birth safc found:-

Name: Percy Lilley
Year of Registration: 1897
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Chorlton
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8c
Page: 761

The name Patrick could have been added at baptism. He could have used the name Percival thinking that Percy was short for that and not realising that he was registered as Percy.

I think it would be worth ordering this certificate to see who the parents were before trying to find the birth in Ireland.

Kath. x

????
could this be him

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1897
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
LILLEY Percy Ardwick Manchester ARD/295/46

Most unusual to have the mother's surname on a baptism if the parents were married.

The fact that her name is recorded in full suggests to me that they were not married.

EDIT:

Having checked, I find that it's an RC church, whose procedures I'm unsure of, so perhaps they record MMN as a matter of routine. Perhaps someone with knowledge of their procedures can confirm..........or otherwise

It does seem that way, is there anyway of searching for them in ireland? northern or south, it would be ashame to just leave it at that, would love to find out more about them have been told storys lol but would love to find out more, Thankyou very much for your help.

It is still possible that they came over from Ireland just after he was born. It seems likely as there is no record on Ancestry of a marriage between his parents in England.

Kath. x

My dad aways said he was but going of the baptism cert he was baptised within a month of being born so not sure, the baptism cert say's that he was baptised at Aloyouis church Ardwick Manchester,

Is it possible they were from Ireland? With a name like Patrick it could be a possibility.

Kath. x

Hi Kath I cant find it either, my aunty on my mums side said they must be convicts lol, unfortunally I cant ask my parents because both have gone, and so have most of there family,

There is no record of his birth on freebmd.....or on Lancsbmd

Nor is there any record of the marriage of his parents

Thats correct and I also have his death cert but anything before this is a mystery, I have a copy of his baptism cert but that is a copy that was done in 1911 so not sure if details afe correct on it but cant find his birth the only one I have found is a couple of months later, been trying to trace his parents to see if I can find them in the 1901 census but no joy,thankyou very much for your help it is much appreciated.

Where was he born? I can't find a birth on Ancestry.

Kath. x