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In 1911 cenus James and Emma Sawkins claim to be married 29 years but can not find marriage? Were they actually married?

Feel may have to purchase birth certificate of one of the children-although may not be any connection to my James Samways at all.

Or perhaps someone may be going to Winchester Record office and prepared to look up baptism for James Sawkins 1859 Avington -does he exist and is his first son Alfred George Sawkins born 1882 Romsey -listed in baptisms?

Thanks for any assistance

Joanna

Am now on the search for this James Sawkins in any cenus prior to 1891 and to find a marriage between James Sawkins and Emma please? To try and prove or disprove my theory of James Samways having two families?

Any assistance would be great as struggling -found them 1891, 1901 and 1911 see previous posts, but not before


Thanks

Joanna

Would anyone being going to Wiltshire and Swindon Record Office and be prepared to do a look up in the Eastern/Devizes Electrol Roll at a specific address

Cuttenham, North Newton, Wiltshire

Looking for James Samways -am aware he is here on 1891 electrol roll but after this not certain for how long.

Thanks

Joanna

Gamekeeper and farm bailiff are similar types of jobs.

If they are the same person, a name change after he left Alice would make sense. What bothers me is that James was having children under the name of Sawkins in 1882 before he married Alice in 1884.

Rose

Just trying to compare the signature on marriage certificate to Alice Mary Samways to the entry on 1911 cenus -I beleive the James looks similar but as no writing expert, could be just as I want it to.

Gonna continue this mystery tomorrow -good night and thanks

Joanna

Rose

Yeah I saw his first child was 1882 and thought this does not make sense -but the reason I had not discounted completely was because his children were born Hampshire -except 1 Thomas born 1889 in Wiltshire and James Samways first two children with Alice Mary were born in Hampshire and his third Archibald James Samways born 1888 in Wiltshire? -Similarities I thought but of course could be wild goose chase, but nothing more concrete to follow.

Thank you Rose for you help


Joanna

Hi Joanna,

I found James Sawkins in 1891 and saw his first child was born 1892 so assumed he wasn't your James. However, you're correct. I can find no sign of him before this.

Rose

Still trying to trace this James Sawkins back through census -tried to find marriage. But in 1911 cenus -said they had been married 29 years -this would lead to a marriage in 1881/1882 -there is no marriages for a James Sawkins between 1879 -1889?

Now I have found a James Sawkins born Alresford District, Hampshire Jan-March 1859 -so this could be the James Sawkins in 1891/1901 and 1911 cenus -but can not seem to find James Samkins born Hampshire in 1861/1871 and 1881 cenus?

Any help greatfully received
Joanna

Rose

Could you point me to the 1881 cenus etc as could not find it?

Joanna

I am looking closely at a James Lawkins/ SAWKINS

I have found the family as SAWKINS in 1891 and 1911 cenus and LAWKINS in 1901 cenus

1891 CENUS
SAWKINS, James Head Married M 33 1858 Gamekeeper
Homington
Hampshire VIEW
SAWKINS, Emma Wife Married F 35 1856
Fonthill Gifford
Wiltshire VIEW
SAWKINS, Alfred G Son M 8 1883 Scholar
Romsey
Hampshire VIEW
SAWKINS, John Son M 7 1884 Scholar
Crowley
Hampshire VIEW
SAWKINS, Mary J Daughter F 5 1886 Scholar
Winchester
Hampshire VIEW
SAWKINS, James Son M 3 1888 Scholar
Froxfield
Hampshire VIEW
SAWKINS, Thomas Son M 2 1889
Dinton
Wiltshire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG12 Piece:
1623 Folio:
44 Page:
9

Registration District:
Wilton Sub District:
Bishopstone Enumeration District:
4 Ecclesiastical Parish:
Dinton

Civil Parish:
Dinton Municipal Borough:
Wilton Address:
Salisbury Road, Dinton, Wilton County: Wiltshire

1901 CENUS
LAWKINS, James Head Married M 40 1861 Gamekeeper
Avington
Hampshire VIEW
LAWKINS, Emma Wife Married F 41 1860
Hindon
Wiltshire VIEW
LAWKINS, John Son Single M 18 1883 Gamekeeper
Colmore
Hampshire VIEW
LAWKINS, Tom Son M 13 1888
Hurdcort
Wiltshire VIEW
LAWKINS, Emma Daughter F 3 1898
West Tytherley
Hampshire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG13 Piece:
1078 Folio:
36 Page:
5

Registration District:
Stockbridge Sub District:
Broughton Enumeration District:
3 Ecclesiastical Parish:
West Tytherley

Civil Parish:
West Tytherley Municipal Borough:
Address:
Briffs, West Tytherley County:
Hampshire

and 1911 Cenus
SAWKINS, James Head Married M 52 1859 Gamekeeper Havington Hants VIEW
SAWKINS, Emma Wife Married
29 years F 54 1857 Fonthill Wilts VIEW
SAWKINS, Emma Daughter F 12 1899 School West Tytherley Hants VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
7619 Reference:
RG14PN7619 RG78PN373 RD137 SD1 ED5 SN101

Registration District:
Hertford Sub District:
Watton Enumeration District:
5 Parish:
Walkern

Address:
Box Wood Cottage Walkern County:
Hertfordshire

Not found James Sawkins in 1881 cenus -and of course dont know the maiden name of wife Emma. According to 1911 cenus they have been married 29 years by then and had 6 children, 1 whom has died. So marriage should be around 1882? Not found it yet

Could this be my James Samways -Sawkins very similar?

Did he have two families?

Many Thanks for everyone's help -unlikely will get on Computer much before 27th but will check thread as soon as possible

Thanks again everyone

Joanna

There was a James Lamkins/Sawkins in 1901 but I was able to trace him back.

Rose

Good idea Rose, had looked at males born Avington, but nothing jumped out, but I will do as you say and try and trace them all and see what I find.

Thanks

Joanna

Seems likely he upped and left Alice but I don't see him under a new surname. Could be he changed his name completely.

Try looking for all males born Avington c1859 in 1901 and 1911 and see who you can't trace back.

Rose

Am so sorry a complete slip with the date but of course a very important difference -yes he married 1884.

They had Florence Amy Samways 1884 April-June Litchfield, Hampshire, Ernest Edward Samways 02/03/1886 in Litchfield and my Great Grandfather Archibald James Samways in 23/02/1888 in Cuttenham, North Newnton, Wiltshire

Thanks for all your help and sorry for the mistake in date

Joanna

Confirming Rose's statement:

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Mar 1884
PRINCE Alice Mary Kingsclere 2c 327
Samways James Kingsclere 2c 327

Looks like he married in 1884 whereas your first post says 1874.

Rose

He's listed as unmarried in 1881:

1881 England Census
about James Samways
Name: James Samways
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Relation: Son
Mother's name: Mary Samways
Gender: Male
Where born: Avington, Hampshire, England
Civil Parish: Litchfield
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England
Street address: Down Farm
Employment status: View image
Occupation: Ag Lab Farm Foreman (Bailiff)
Registration district: Kingsclere
Sub-registration district: Highclere
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Samways 51
James Samways 22
George Samways 18

Rose

Off to bed will check back tomorrow Thanks Joanna

As my James Samways did not have a middle name -dont believe it is likely to be him. There is a James Henry Samways born 1855 in Alverstoke -so am guessing this is his death.

But I dont rule anything out completely as I am at a lost after the most recent info that I have is from 1891 when he was in Eastern/Devizes Electrol Roll in living at Cuttenham, North Newnton, Wiltshire.

Thanks for all suggestions

Joanna

Have you discounted this?

Deaths Sep 1913
Samways James H 57 Alverstoke 2b 618