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from 1920 to 1928 in hemsworth west yorkshirelorriane mona

thomas monaghanborn189 0 it was 1921 to 1927 at hemsworth s yorkshire

from 1919 to 1929 cound it be sheffield courts help lorriane mona

Lorraine/Mona posted about this last year and I did try to help her then.
I sent her a message with some advice, suggesting that she contacted or visited the main Wakefield Library

Lorraine, all I can do is point you in the right direction. The information you seek will not be on line I don't think.

You need to be more specific about dates, place etc, If the incident occured in Hemsworth then the trial probably took place in Wakefield-

My first call would be to Wakefield Library to see what newspapers they hold as the incident was more than likely reported locally. If you live in Wakefield I would visit the main library, if not then contact by post or e-mail and ask what newspaper holdings they have.

The National Archives has some records: go to this web site:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

type' prison records' into the search box at the top rt hand corner

then click on 'looking for records of a prisoner'


Records are NOT searchable by name this is what it says:

Record Summary
Title Home Office: Calendar of Prisoners
Scope and content These "after-trial" calendars are lists, for the most part printed, of prisoners tried at Assizes and Quarter Sessions. They include the following information: number; name; age; trade; previous convictions; name and address of committing magistrates; date of warrant; when received into custody; offence as charged in the commitment (includes name of victim before 1969); when tried; before whom tried; verdict of the jury; sentence or order of the court.
Covering dates 1868-1971
Arrangement The calendars are arranged yearly, and then alphabetically by county and chronologically within county.

there appears to be a 75 year closure so if the offence was more than 75 years ago it should be available. You will need to know the date etc especially if you can't get to Kew and need them to search for it.

Hello Lorraine, I have just noticed your addition to Moira's posting. If you have some idea when any thing took place you could contact a local library to see if there was a report on the crime at the time. The information which I found for Moira was on line 19th century newspaper so unfortunately I can only locate things which happened before 1900. Have you got any dates when the crime took place?-jle

i dont knew want nest to do lorriane

glad iread about finding pr isoner ibeen looking for my father he was iww from1914 1919 was miner in hemswoth yorkshire be for and after the war . he had a fight with a man the man died iv tread to find out theres nothing in wakefield archives his name thomas monaghan any help, this from lorriane

glad iread about finding pr isoner ibeen looking for my father he was iww from1914 1919 was miner in hemswoth yorkshire be for and after 'aman died after fight with my dad he did time 18m iv been wakefield archives cart find any trace please could you help me iam 81 years old and doing my bestto right thisgod bless you lorriane

You're welcome-jle

I cannot thank you enough Janet, it has made such interesting reading. You have opened my eyes to the going's on of my past family.
Again Thank You

I have found the conclusion to the case-

The trial took place at the Quarter Session on Friday June 28th 1895.
The copy of the paper is indistinct in places and it repeats the information already typed out.

It goes on to say "At the suggestion of the Recorder , the case of larceny was first dealt with, and in order not to prejudice the prisoner no evidence was offered on the charge of resisting the officers. prisoner was found guilty of the theft, and before passing sentence, the Recorder asked to hear the evidence on the misdemeanour. Prisoner, however pleaded guilty and Mr Rimington Wilson said it was evident that the officers had a very narrow escape.
In passing sentence, the Recorder said the case was the worst he had had to try since he had been Recorder of the city , and it was impossible for him to deal with it except by using considerable severity Prisoner might thank God that he had not been left to be hung. He was a dangerous man, and although only in the first flush of life he had set off on a downward course (the Recorder)would be false to his duty to that ***if he did not let it be clearly seen that he was determined to put a stop to the carrying of revolvers, and the use of them by people under prisoner's circumstances. Prisoner would have to go to penal servitude for five years.

To save my typing anymore as it isn't a very clear copy the Recorder goes on to praise the officers and suggest a reward or similar for the 'two very fine fellows'

As five years would mean five years in those days it would appear then that he would be there until 1900, so if he was at Wakefield in 1901 then, if we have the right man he was either starting another sentence or had his term extended for whatever reason.-jlb

Moira- this is the remainder of the article

...........Detective Marr corroborated the narrative of the previous witness. He said when he got into the court in Furnival street the prisoner stood with his back against a wall, produced a revolver from his pocket and said "If you come for me , I will shoot you, you------"Witness rushed at him, but the prisoner ran into the court, pursued by the officer, and followed, and he also went after Marr into Froggarts lane.
Evidence was also given by Albert Thompson of 32 Albert street, who witnessed the occurrence
The prisoner who pleaded not guilty on both charges was commited for trial at the Sessions without bail

I will try and find the final trial. If he got married in 1906 then presumably he had finished his sentence. At least this is more interesting than some of the enquiries on these boards- lol-jle

Thank you so much for all your hard work, this make fantastic reading. I have checked and double checked that there were no more John Kerr's born in Sheffield around that time and cannot find any. I have come across a marriage in that area for 1906 for a John Sydney O P Kerr,

Moira
I think the evidence is something that the silent movies were all about. I can just imagine all this going on with a honky tonk piano playing in the background. I will send the rest later. I haven't found the conclusion to the case but it is very serious and he may have gone, and remained in jail because of this incident.
Thinking about the information that he had spent 6 years in America, it may be that is why and where the gun appeared. When my great aunt passed away in the 1950's although she was over 90 my mother found a derringer (pistol) which my aunt would have purchased in the States. My gt aunt was a character but certainly not dishonest she would have bought it for protection. I remember my parents being very concerned at the time as to what they should do.
As I cannot copy and paste this infomation I will try to complete later. Also I will try to look for the outcome of the trial......but not today......sorry. Unless someone else has time-Jle

.........Again he flourished the firearm, and told Thrale if he did not allow him to pass he would shoot him/ At great personal risk Thrale, disregarding the threat, closed with the prisoner, and took the revolver from him. Marr arriving on the scene, the handcuffs were quickly brought into used, and prisoner was in a short time given ample opportunity for reflection in the clam of a police cell. The revolver was a six chambered one. I t was fully loaded, and prisoner had a quantity of cartridges in his pocket. On being brought before the Court yesterday only sufficient evidence was offered to justify a remand. The prosecutor stated that the articles were missed from his home by his wife and he added that prisoner, when he pawned them at the shop of Mr Beeley, in Attercliffe road, had £ 70 in his possession- The prisoner alleged that prosecutor had been acting with him in securing goods on the hire system, but Beal denied this- Prisoner who has been several times convicted was remanded until Monday.
Edit: the word clam was used about the police cell, wondering if this was a printing error and should be calm, unless it was being used as in 'to clam up'-j

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Sheffield and Rotherham Independent 29 May 1895
Sheffield Detectives in Peril
A desperate Thief
When John Kerr alias Reader, stepped in the dock at the Sheffield Police court, yesterday it was doubtful if anyone present not in the ??? would have suspected him of being a dangerous characterHis age was given as 22 but with his boyish face which was a mild expression and a perpetual smile he might have been taken for a harmless and juvenile importation from the country. Yet this innocent looking youth startled a couple of detectives a few nights ago who were seeking to arrest him on a charge of theft by producing a revolver charge in all its halfdozen compartments, and threatening to shoot them if they attempted to touch him. There can be no doubt messrs Marr and Thrale, the two detectives alluded to have had a narrow escape of being shot dead, and it is a tribute to the courage that the presence of danger did not in the least degree deter them from performing their duty.In the case of one of them Kerr pointed the pistol at the detective's breast at a distance of only four yards and had he pulled the trigger instant death would probably have been the result. The officer did not however hesitate for a second, but sprang upon the fugitive and wrenched the weapon from his grasp. Kerr, who was described as an engineer living in Brompton street, Attercliffe was charge before the Stipendiary with having stolen a quantity of wearing apparel from John Beal, miner Brompton road, on or about May 20th and also with misdemeanour in threatening to shoot Detective Thrale and Marr on May 22nd - Mr A.M. Wilson appear in support of the prosecutionand Mr T Wilmot defended.
John Beal 34 Bromptonroad, Miner said the prisoner had lodged with him nine days, and on May 20 he missed from his house a quantity of wearing apparel, worth about £3 16s.. The prisoner had the authority from him to sell or pledge the goods. He reported the matter to the police and it was discovered that the prisoner had pawned the things with Mr Veeley, Attercliffe for 12 shillings.
Replying to Mr Wilmot, the witness denied that he and the prisoner had been partners in certain doubtful transactions.
Detective Thrale stated that on the evening of the 22 May he , accompanied by Detective Marr, went in search of the prisoner, and arrested him in Eyre street on a charge of theft. As they were bringing him along Eyre St towards the Police Office the man bolted ,ran down Arundel street and into a court in Furnival street, Marr followed into the court, witness going into Froggatt lane, where he saw the prisoner climb over a wall. Witness went for him whereupon the prisoner produced a revolver, pointed it at the witness and said"If you don't let me pass I will shoot you"Witness rushed at him and obtained possession of the revolver. Marr came up and the prisoner was handcuffed. In Arundel street the prisoner dropped 18 cartridges. The cartridges fitted the revolver. The weapon was a six-chambered revolver loaded in every chamber.
Cross examined by Mr Wilmot, the witness denied a suggestion that the prisoner handed him the revolver without a struggle, saying there was a struggle for several minutes before he obtained the weapon.

. Sorry I had to sign off yesterday I had Visitors
The Black Sheep of the family. Wait until I show this to the rest of the family.Wow, Oh my Goodness.What a rouge, love it,
So Please I asked for help, you are Stars
Moira

Well he doesn't sound like a very nice person does he. I had a look on the 1890 US Census but a lot of it was destroyed by fire in 1921 so can't find him.

Hope Moira comes back to read all Janet's findings.

Hi Moira...well you did ask- j
Chasing a Prisoner:
Sheffield Detectives threatened with a revolver.
At the Sheffield Police Court yesterday before Mr Samuel Roberts, a young man named John Kerr an engineer, who has been living in Brompton road, Attercliffe, was charged with stealing a suit of clothes.two pairs of boots, eight yards of sheeting and a table cloth value £3, 15 s, the property of John Beal, with whom the accused has been lodging. Prisoner's arrest was effected under unusual and exciting circumstances. On the robbery being reported ot the police Detective Inspector Moody instructed detective Thrale and Marr to secure the prisoner. On Wednesday night they met him in Eyre Street and arrested him. He promised to accompany them quietly to the lock up and the three started for Water Lane. They had not gone far however when the prisoner broke faith with the officers and bolted. An exciting chase followed.........(are you all following this?)On getting into a yard in Furnival Street the prisoner turned, drew a revolver and threatened to shoot Marr. This move giving him a temporary advantage, he seized it to scale a wall and increase the distance between his pursuers and himself. His victory was a short lived one, however. Entering a lane in the locality he was met by Detective Thrale. Again he flourished the firearm..
...to be continued as I have run out of space on my note pad
Taken from sheffield and Rotherham Independent May 1895

Hi Moira - this could be another conviction. This John Kerr is being charged in Sheffield - taken from the newspaper in January 6th 1894 which fits in with his age.It is reported that he had been in America for 6 years, I haven't checked but he may be on the census in the US which would prove everything- jle

The Arrest of Burglars in Nottingham
On Wednesday the men arrested in Nottingham (as stated elsewhere)were brought up to the Sheffield Quarter Sessions,when John Kerr 20 and A Smithson, 14 pleaded guilty to breaking into the warehouse of George Wing on the 15th December.and stealing a knife , a fork, napkin rings , and £3 in money: the two same prisoners pleaded guilty to warehouse breaking on the 28th December at the premises of John George Graves, and stealing a number of watches, watch chains, studs, and rings: and Thomas William Smithson, 19 admitted receiving and dealing with some of the stolen goods, John Kerr and Arthur Smithson also pleaded guilty to breaking into the premises of John Figorski, and steal pocket books, a lady's companion, a case of rings &c -Mr Harold Thomas, who prosecuted stated the facts as detailed before the magistrates- Detective inspector Moody in answer to the Recorder said Kerr had been in America for about six years and only returned last March. Since then he had been convicted of stealing a bicycle at Nottingham . The father of the two Smithsons was called, and stated that Thomas had always been a good lad, but Arthur had been a bit "crooked" since he got to know Kerr- The Recorder said he had little doubt that Kerr had brought the other two lads into their present position and he should sentence him to six months's imprisonment with hard labour. He committed the Smithsons each to seven days' imprisonment without hard labour , and expressed the hope that this would prove a warning to them

Taken from the 19th century on line newspaper- Nottinghamshire Guardian

1911 the same man as 1901


Address: Parkhurst Carisbrooke Isle of Wight
County: Hampshire


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KERR, John Convict M M 35 1876 Formerly Fitter Engineer Yorks Sheffield