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back to my Maria Butler again. Just looked at the details on the search pilot on family.org and it says residence 1870 Surrey. Maybe thats why I havent found her as I thought she was in Woolwich. So I am looking for William BUTLER , father, with Maria BUTLER b 1870 and a Charles BUTLER c 1867 in Surrey 1871 please. (not the one born Hampstead)

other post

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1234876

jax

This one???

1871 England Census
about Maria Butler
Name: Maria Butler
Age: 1
Estimated birth year: abt 1870
Gender: Female
Where born: London, England
Civil parish: St Marylebone
Ecclesiastical parish: St Stephen
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Marylebone
Sub-registration district: St John
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Household schedule number: 294
Household Members: Name Age
William Butler 45
Maria Butler 46
John Butler 12
Eliza Butler 10
George Butler 8
Charles Butler 4
Maria Butler 1

Edit: NO, not this one. It's been crossed through on the image. It's the same one as the family on Hampstead Heath with mother Martha.

where does it say she was born please? If it says Hampshire or Hampstead then its not mine

you have this info on your other thread

jax

this is the one that married george shurety. I looked just now on bmd and there seems to be a marriage at Guildford Surrey of a William BUtler and Maria Guy in 1865 so that may have a connection to mine. Charles Butler, MAria's brother was born approx 1867.

jax I was searching for Woolwich and Kent but now I have looked further into the details on family org it says they were resident in SUrrey in 1870 so they may well be there still in 1871 census as they are nowher else to be found

Can we just start again? looking at the other thread confuses the issue even more...as does surrey' ...some areas of London were listed as 'Surrey', that doesn't mean very much ,

Do you have some absolute definite information on Maria, to work from please?

The baptism you found for 1884 says birth 15 Jan 1870.

The only one registered under Maria Butler in that quarter is the one in Hampstead.

sorry for the confusion with the other thread but I have been trying all sorts of possibilities.
Okay the facts now
Maria Butler married William Pearson 1890 Northfleet Kent fathers name William occupation labourer and her birth date 1870. From then on the census has her as Maria Pearson birthplace Woolwich. Cant find her on 1871 census or a birth registration for her. At first glance she appears to be there but that Maria Butler born Hampstead married GEorge Shurety as she appears on a later census with her family under the name Shurety.
1881 has Maria Butler b 1870 woolwich in the metropolitan district school. The registers give her nearest living relative as Charles Butler c 1867 Woolwich also in the school. BOth are said to be illegitimate.


Just recently somebody pointed out a baptism for a Maria BUtler with father William at Sutton near Croydon in 1884 but birthdate 15th January 1870. Somebody also just recently told me about searching family.org search pilot and it gives this baptism but also says resident in Surrey in 1870.
So I was hoping that maybe they were still around that area in 1871 census and that I had been searching in the wrong area.

I also found a marriage of a William Butler and Maria Guy 1865 Guildford Surrey which could be a link as Charles was born 1867. But again I am clutching at straws with this one.

nudging up to make the rest of the info available
the Maria BUTLER born Hampstead is not mine

I have a new lead on my Maria BUTLER, THere is a death of a Maria BUTLER aged 84 in 1877 in Lambeth and I am wondering if this could be my Maria BUTLER's grandmother so I am asking if anybody could find her on 1871 census or even before then, 1861 as that may show her with a daughter or son that could be my Maria's parent.
Thank you

What about these......

1861

Name: Maria Butler
Age: 62
Estimated birth year: abt 1799
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: William
Gender: Female
Where born: Auburn, Wiltshire, England

Civil parish: Battersea
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Wandsworth
Sub-registration district: Battersea
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 214
Household Members: Name Age
William Butler 65
Maria Butler 62
Brown W Butler 23 ............son....should read Broom
George A Butler 21 ........son

1851
Name: Maria Butler
Age: 52
Estimated birth year: abt 1799
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: William
Gender: Female
Where born: Auburn, Wiltshire, England

Civil parish: Barking
Ecclesiastical parish: Great Ilford
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Romford
Sub-registration district: Great Ilford
ED, institution, or vessel: 2a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 40
Household Members: Name Age
William Butler 55
Maria Butler 52
Eward Wm Butler 24
Edni Witts Butler 15
Braom Witts Butler 13
George Augustus Butler 11
Ann Richards 32

1841
Name: Maria Butler
Age: 40
Estimated birth year: abt 1801
Gender: Female

Civil parish: Mongewell
Hundred: Langtree
County/Island: Oxfordshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Wallingford
Sub-registration district: Wallingford
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Butler 43
Maria Butler 40
Broom Butler 3
George Butler 1

1871

Name: Maria Butler
Age: 79
Estimated birth year: abt 1792
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Female
Where born: London, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Emmanuel
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Lambeth Church Second
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Household schedule number: 224
Household Members: Name Age
James Ireland 41
Anne Ireland 38
Joseph Ireland 16
Fanny Ireland 15
Fredrick Ireland 12
Jessia Ireland 10
James Ireland 8
George Ireland 6
Lucas Ireland 5
William Ireland 2
Alice Ireland 2
Ann Bayley 70
Elizabeth Bayley 30
Albert Bayley 9
Elizabeth Bayley 8 months
Maria Butler 79


I think this is the one you found the death for!

Just a thought here as it's something that happened to me......

The name of the father on the marriage cert maybe wrong...
I had a marriage for my grt Grandfather and on his marriage cert it had Robert Shard (deceased) as his father....but this wasn't so....his father was Henry Shard as told his birth cert.....you see Robert Shard was Henry's brother and still alive when William (my grt Grandfather)married....where as Henry had died in 1866 .....

When we studied he cert and tried to fathom out what had happened.....we thought that the person registering the details must have heard the bride say her father was Robert (as it was) and put into the Grooms fathers place, but with the right surname....

Sorry to go on but all I'm saying is maybe her father wasn't William Butler ...She may have been born out of wedlock and assumed her mothers husband was her father, they did tend to keep things quiet in thise days....

Just out of curiosity Maria who married William what was his fathers name....maybe something similar happened to you...

there is this on the 1871.....

Name: Maria Butler
Age: 4 months
Estimated birth year: abt 1870
Relation: Granddaughter
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: St George in The East, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: St George in The East
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: St George In The East
Sub-registration district: St Paul
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Household schedule number: 70
Household Members: Name Age
John Butter 50
Eliza Butter 47
John Butter 25
Hannah Butter 21
Reuben Butter 19
Agnes Butter 17
Alfred Butter 13
Emma Butler 11
Elizabeth Butler 20....widow....daughter in law
Maria Butler 4 months


Elizabeth is her mother

Maria married William Pearson andhis father was THomas.
This one ha cropped up before although most of them are transcribed as Butter the it changes to Butler. It does appear to fit what I am looking for but for Elizabeth to have had a child of 4 months and be widowed then there should be a death for her husband within the last 13 months. We would have to find the family in 1861 to see what sons are around then check for their deaths.

That's just it I found the same family on the 1861 but alll the children the same..

1861
Name: John Butler
Age: 40
Estimated birth year: abt 1821
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Eliza
Gender: Male
Where born: St George, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: St George in The East
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: St George In The East
Sub-registration district: St Paul
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 215
Household Members: Name Age
John Butler 40
Eliza Butler 40
John Julian 13
Hanh Julian 12
Reuben Julian 18
Agness Amelia 8
Alfred Amelia 4
Emma Amelia 1


1851

Name: John Butler
Age: 29
Estimated birth year: abt 1822
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Eliza
Gender: Male
Where born: St Georges E, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Bethnal Green
Ecclesiastical parish: St Bartholomew
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Bethnal Green
Sub-registration district: Green
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 127
Household Members: Name Age
John Butler 29
Eliza Butler 29
Hannah Butler 2
Catharine Laws 13 .....servant

Father John's occupation is Fishmonger on all census's..

I think i posted on one of you previous threads, that something not right with the 1871 as all his sons are down as son but all his daughters are down as D.I.L ..all his children are down as married apart from those too young.....so been put down wrong on the original census....unless they all married their siblings.....lol

Elizabeth down as daughter in law ...widowed her occ...tailoress

Perhaps daughter in law doesn't just mean what we think, I'm sure someone mentioned ages ago it can mean something else.....ie: a family memeber neice or something, perhaps someone will enlighten us on that one...

Just been havin a look on Familysearch and this came up....

MARIA MARY ANN JONES BUTLER Pedigree
Female


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 24 MAY 1874 St John Walworth, Southwark, London, England

Death:
Burial:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: CHARLES FREDERICK JONES BUTLER Family
Mother: MARY ANN


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.


and this.....


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


CHARLES FREDERICK JONES BUTLER Pedigree
Male


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 24 MAY 1874 St John Walworth, Southwark, London, England

Death:
Burial:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: CHARLES FREDERICK JONES BUTLER Family
Mother: MARY ANN


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

I also found a birth reg for Charles.....
Name: Charles Frederick J Butler
Birth: Dec 1868 - Newington, Surrey

and a possible for Maria Mary Ann....
Name: Mary Ann J Butler
Birth: Sep 1872 - London City, Greater London, London, Middlesex

Possibly they added Maria seeing as her mother was called Mary Ann too...

so I now am wondering if they could have been put down as Charles and MAria Jones on 1871 instead of Butler.
Could you look that one up for me please.

I just know I will break down this brick wall one day. it helps to get others to give their opinions as you can get clouded with one view.

d i L can sometimes mean step daughter.