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I wonder if anyone could help me find information about my grandmother Ethel Marena Stevens (born 12/03/1903, Islington, London). The 1911 census shows her as living in Royston Home for Little Girls in Royston. I know that she then went to Sudbury Hall Orphange in Sudbury, Middlesex. I am unable to trace any info from Sudbury Hall. But then there is no trace of her until we have details of her on my mothers birth certificate in 1931 (Myrena Pearl French 12/10/1931, Paddington, London). Her name on my mum's birth certificate appears as Ethel Holmes French! The family story is that she went from Sudbury Hall into service - maybe on the Isle of Wight but ran away, then had a bigamous marriage (could this be the Holmes?). This could have been around 1924/1925 and it is thought she may have had a baby around then, but if she did,no-one knows what happened to it. My mum's father was Philip French but as far as we know they were not married (as the family disapproved), so I think she was just using his name. (on mum's birth certificate it says father unknown). There is also a vague recollection of a family story that she may have travelled around during this time as a chorus girl.
I would be really grateful for any help or tips, as I have been searching for info for several years.
Many thanks

Carol, this is part of your reply on a previous thread of yours:-

Carol 13th August 2010 21:40 Request review

"Thank you all for your help. Apologies I hope I haven't upset anyone - I don't really know how to use these 'threads'!! The birth & death details are certainly correct for Ethel."

This is the birth and death for Ethel that Flick found so can you confirm again that these are correct

Birth
Name: Ethel Marena Stevens
Year of Registration: 1903
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Islington
County: Greater London, London, Middlesex
Volume: 1b
Page: 216

death
Name: Ethel Marena Bell
Birth Date: 12 Mar 1903
Death Registration Month/Year: 1976
Registration district: Surrey A
Inferred County: Surrey
Volume: 17
Page: 0415

if these are correct, it would seem appropiate to purchase some certificates ie:

marriage
Ethel M Stevens to Ernest G French
Spouse Surname: French
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1923
Registration district: Battle
Registration county (inferred): Sussex
Volume Number: 2b

marriage below.......re posting lower down page, this marriage is not the correct one

Ethel M French married Samuel BELL
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1934
Registration district: Norwich
Registration county (inferred): Norfolk
Volume Number: 4b
Page Number: 288
Find Spouse: Find Spouse
Page Number: 130


Flick also found these births .............purchasing the certificates would perhaps also confirm some of the above info:

Births Sep 1923
French Ronald G.... Stevens ...Battle 2b 73

Births Dec 1926
French Kathleen M ...Stevens... Battle 2b 56


Have you been able to confirm any of this info as yet with certificates?

PM to me.....dated 13th August

Hi Flick, Thank you very much for your help. Apologies for not replying, I had no idea that things happened so fast on here and as I am new to all of this, I don't really know how it all works but I didn't mean to upset anyone!! :(
Ethel did indeed have at least one child (my Mother) but the child I was enquiring about was 6 years before my mother was born and something that no-one knew about - so I can only assume that the baby died or was adopted. Ethel went into service from Sudbury Hall Orphanage in Sunbury around 1919 and from there until 1931 no-one knew where she was. But as far as the family knew, in this time she married (which was rumoured to be a bigamous marriage) and kept moving around until my mother was born in 1931. I have absolutely no idea where she was in this time or how to start trying to find out. I found an old letter from her brother (dated April 1925) which refers to Ethels new husband and baby, which was a complete surprise!!

Reply

Hi, I know the birth & death details are correct (as I have those certs). I have applied for copiesof the marriage certs for French. I have tried Shaftsbury homes - who seemed to own Sudbury Hall but they have no records. Unfortunately, while my Grandmother was alive she didn't feel able to talk about her past to my mum. Now my mum is elderly and quite poorly, she is really anxious to try and find anything out but I must admit every avenue I have tried, I get no where. I just wish the 1921 census was available now!
Many thanks for your replies.
Kind regards
Carol

I forgot to say, I know the marriage details for Samuel Bell was not the right one, as she married a George Michael Bell in 1940.

for info only

Marriages Jun 1940
Bell George M French Staines 3a 180
French Myrina E Bell Staines 3a 180

Possible birth and death for Ernest George French:-

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Ernest George French
Name: Ernest George French
Year of Registration: 1900
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Battle
County: Sussex, East Sussex
Volume: 2b
Page: 56


England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005
about Ernest George French
Name: Ernest George French
Birth Date: 30 Jul 1900
Death Registration Month/Year: May 1985
Age at death (estimated): 84
Registration district: Eastbourne
Inferred County: Sussex
Volume: 18
Page: 442

Thank you. I have got this marriage cert and for some reason my grandmother told a few porkies on it! She changed her father's surname to French and also her maiden name to French (when they were both def Stevens)! Maybe this was to save face as her daughters's (my mum Myrena Pearl) surname was French??!!

Firstly, I hope I am posting this in the right place!
Secondly OMG! OMG! OMG!!
I have just received the copy of the marriage cert (kindly advised by Flick) for Ethel M Stevens and Ernest G French (April 1923, Battle). I can't believe it, but it is def my grandmother Ethel Marena Stevens!! Now I have got over the shock and stopped blubbing I need to find out more! Flick also stated names of 2 children Ronald G French (Q3 1923 Battle 2b 73) and Kathleen M French (Q4 1926 Battle 2b 56). I am going to order copies of these certs now but am interested to know where Flick found this information (forgive me if I am being thick but as stated before, I am new to all of this!!). How would I go about finding out what happened to this marriage (i.e. did Ernest die) and what happened to the children, as they certainly weren't on the scene or ever spoken about when my mum was born in 1931. On the marriage cert it states Ernest as gardener (domestic), residing at Marley Lane, Battle, father is Herbert French, farm labourer. Ethel is shown as domestic servant (parlour maid), residing at Wood End, Crowhurst. I am also intrigued to find out whether Ernest had a brother called Philip, as my mum is sure that the name Philip French was mentioned.
Thank you all so much for your help so far.
Carol

Hi Carol..me again!

Was Ernest's second name George? Was he 22/23 when they married?

If so............

Births Sep 1900 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

French Ernest George Battle 2b 56

This makes the birth look good....................
1911

Person: FRENCH, Ernest
Address: Little Park Cottages Battle

Cost:
You will be charged 10 credits for a transcript and 30 credits for an image, unless you have purchased a subscription for this set of records.



FRENCH, Herbert Head Married M 56 1855 Carter On Farm Sussex Whatlington Parish VIEW
FRENCH, Annie Wife Married
34 years F 52 1859 Sussex Brede Parish VIEW
FRENCH, Percy Son Single M 22 1889 Blacksmith's Striper Sussex Battle VIEW
FRENCH, Horace Son Single M 20 1891 Farm Labourer Sussex Battle VIEW
FRENCH, Elsie Daughter F 12 1899 School Sussex Battle VIEW
FRENCH, Ernest Son M 10 1901 School Sussex Battle


10 children born in marriage - 2 have died

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Jun 1877 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

****French Herbert Rye 2b 4
Sargent Charles Rye 2b 4
Smith Hannah Rye 2b 4
****Weller Anna Laura Rye 2b 4

1881

Name: Herbert French
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1856
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Anna Laura
Gender: Male
Where born: Whatlington, Sussex, England

Civil parish: Whatlington
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England

Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Carter (Ag Lab)

Registration district: Battle
Sub-registration district: Ewhurst
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Herbert French 25
Anna Laura French 22
Rhoda Jane French 3
Spencer Herbert French 1
__________________________________________________

Daughter Rhoda in 1901

Rhoda J French 23 Sussex Brede Sussex Burwash General Servant Domestic

1901

Name: Herbert Thonch
Age: 47
Estimated birth year: abt 1854
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Annie L
Gender: Male
Where born: Whatlington, Sussex, England

Civil parish: Battle
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary and St Martin
Town: Battle
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England


Registration district: Battle
Sub-registration district: Battle
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 24
Household Members: Name Age
Herbert Thonch 47
Annie L Thonch 43
Frederick Thonch 12
Horace J Thonch 10
John H Thonch 7
Alice Thonch 2
Ernest G Thonch 8 months

1891

Name: Annie F Hench
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Herbert W
Gender: Female
Where born: Brede, Sussex, England

Civil parish: Battle
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Battle
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England


Registration district: Battle
Sub-registration district: Battle
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Herbert W Hench 36
Annie F Hench 32
Rhoda J Hench 13
Spencer H Hench 11
Annie L Hench 6
Frederick P Hench 2 ***********PERCY in later records
Horace J Hench 1/12

Thank you very much for all this information! Will read and digest.
Carol

I have just received copies of the birth certificates for Ronald George French (16/08/1923) and Kathleen Mary French (09/09/1926) and once again these are definately children of my grandmother Ethel Marena French (nee Stevens). I am absolutely astonished - my mum is 79 next month & has just discovered that she had (or possibly still has) a brother & sister!! On the birth certs the registration district is Battle, sub-district Bexhill in the County of East Sussex but what is amazing, is that it gives the place of birth/residence of mother as 5 Beauport Buildings, Hollington. I have tried researching this but so far haven't been able to find anything out but will keep trying. What I am unsure how to do now is to try & find out what happened to Ronald, Kathleen & husband Ernest, as by 1931 (when my mum was born) they were not on the scene. My mum's birth certificate states father unknown, so I am pretty sure it wasn't Ernest. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks.
Carol

Reading this am i right in assuming the marriage to Ernest French was Bigamous? if so maybe she put the children in care when they parted There is a possible marriage for Ronald which will PM Also found one for Kathleen .PM,d too

Hi, I don't think the marriage to Ernest George French was bigamous, as Ethel was only 20 and I can see that her mother was a witness to it. I think if the rumour that there was a bigamous marriage was true, that it came somewhere between 1926 - 1931 and maybe this is where the name Holmes came from (as on my mother'sbirth cert it Ethel was put her surname as Holmes-French).

But to have remarried even bigamously she must have left Ernest so the children could still have been put into care Unless she left them with Ernest !!