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My Gt gt grandfather Thomas Baker was born c1827-30 in France, possibly Paris or Calais, depending on which census you read. He was baptised 3 June 1832 in Frant Sussex, the illegitimate son of Jane Baker.
By the 1881 census he has 'British Subject' next to his birthplace and I am wondering if there is anyway I could find a record of this, or was it just because he was of English descent who happened to be born in France, I really don't understand how this term is used I'm afraid.
I have no idea why his mother was in France as her and her family are from Frant too.
in 1841 Thomas is living with his Uncle learning his trade, by the 1851 he is with his mother and her 2nd husband, oddly on this one Thomas has a middle name, Hudson, I wonder whether this was put on to give a clue to his father, but there is no way I'll find that out.

Thanks for any help

Hi Patricia,

British Subject on census means that born in another country of either parent being of Englsih birth,also they had not been registered as a citizen of that country or taken citizenship.

Perhaps a mistake has been made in that *Frant* has been misread as France, a simple enough thing back then.

Sorry this pc crashed and I had to ring the nice men in IT to fix it! Although I don't hold my breath it will stay running for long

Thanks Kay but it clearly states France and sometimes either Calais or Paris too, but I can see where you're coming from suggesting that

Ann, thank you for looking but they are not my Thomas I'm afraid

for reference

1881 census - household transcription
Person: BAKER, Thomas
Address: 7, Alma Tavern Common Lodging House, Varney St, Tunbridge
BREWER, David Head Married M 40 1841 Beer House Keeper
Hackney
Middlesex VIEW
BREWER, Elizabeth Other Married F 33 1848
Lewes
Sussex VIEW
BREWER, William Son Single M 13 1868 Scholar
Tunbridge Wells
Kent VIEW
BREWER, Ellen Daughter Single F 11 1870 Scholar
Tunbridge Wells
Kent VIEW
BREWER, Tilly Daughter Single F 8 1873 Scholar
Tunbridge Wells
Kent VIEW
BREWER, Frank Son Single M 2 1879
Tunbridge Wells
Kent VIEW
BREWER, Fanny Daughter Single F 0 1881
Tunbridge Wells
Kent VIEW
TESTER, John Lodger Married M 56 1825 Labourer
Buxted
Sussex VIEW
DALTON, George Lodger Married M 45 1836 Labourer
Withyhouse
Sussex VIEW
BAKER, Thomas Lodger Married M 54 1827 Chimney Sweeper
Paris (British Subject)
France VIEW
MARTIN, Richard Lodger Widower M 42 1839 Labourer
Tunbridge
Kent VIEW
BROWN, John Lodger Widower M 40 1841 Plaisterer
London, London
Middlesex VIEW
JOHNSON, Robert Lodger Single M 41 1840 Groom
Scotland VIEW
REED, John Lodger Single M 35 1846 Agricultural Laborer
VIEW
BRANDON, George Lodger Married M 41 1840 Boot Maker
Chesham
Buckinghamshire VIEW
BRENNAN, James Lodger Single M 41 1840 Painter
Brighton
Sussex VIEW
TESTER, Elizabeth Lodger Married F 44 1837 Hawker
Gaston
Yorkshire

I would be surprised if the ame error was made in all the censuses.

1851 census - household transcription
Person: BAKER, Thomas Herdson
Address: Tangear Road, Frant
STAPELY, Thomas Head Married M 62 1789 Pauper Gardener
Frant
Sussex
STAPELY, Jane Wife Married F 42 1809 Pauper Wife
Frant
Sussex
BAKER, Thomas Herdson Son In Law Unmarried M 21 1830 Sweep
Calais
France
MEPHAM, Mark Son In Law Unmarried M 18 1833 Sweeps Labourer
Frant
Sussex
STAPELY, John Son M 9 1842 Scholar
Frant
Sussex
STAPELY, Jane Daughter F 5 1846
Frant
Sussex

this must fit in somewhere

1861 census - household transcription
Address: Frant Road, Frant
BAKER, Joseph Head Married M 43 1818 Chimney Sweeper
Frant
Sussex
BAKER, Frances Wife Married F 34 1827
Burwash
Sussex
BAKER, Joseph Son Unmarried M 16 1845 ...
Frant
Sussex
BAKER, William Son Unmarried M 14 1847 ...
Frant
Sussex
STAPLEY, Jane Niece Unmarried F 15 1846 Scholar
Frant
Sussex

1861 census -
Address: Wheybourn Cottage, Strawberry Gardens, Frant
BAKER, Robert Head Married M 48 1813 Farm Labourer
Frant
Sussex
BAKER, Sarah Wife Married F 51 1810
Wadhurst
Sussex
BAKER, Edward Son M 12 1849 Scholar
Frant
Sussex
BAKER, Caroline Daughter F 9 1852 Scholar
Frant
Sussex
STAPLEY, John Nephew Unmarried M 18 1843 Farm Labourer
Frant
Sussex

Name: Jane Baker
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1811
Gender: Female
Where born: Sussex, England
Address: Sandown Cottage, Frant
Moss Baker 70
Jane Baker 30
Daniel Dickenson 74
Harriet Fordman 15
George Carr 22


So Thomas is not with her 1841

Is this him with his uncle?

1841 census - household transcription
Person: BAKER, Joseph
Address: Wells Road, Frant
BAKER, Joseph M 20 1821 Sussex
BAKER, Jane F 20 1821 Sussex
BAKER, Thomas M 10 1831

This might help with his father

Th only Hudson I have found so far so worth a look.

1871 census - household transcription
Person: HUDSON, Jesse
Address: Gun Inn, Frant
HOOKER, Robert Head M 50 1821 Sussex VIEW
HOOKER, Mary Niece F 37 1834 Sussex VIEW
PAWLEY, Ann Assistant F 40 1831 Sussex VIEW
HUDSON, Jesse Servant M 60 1811 Sussex VIEW
STIRTON, John Visitor M 34 1837 Scotland

1871 census -
Address: Lamberhurst, Lamberhurst
BAKER, Thomas Head M 41 1830 France
BAKER, Elizabeth A Wife F 39 1832 Kent
BAKER, George Son M 10 1861 Sussex
BAKER, Walter Son M 8 1863 Sussex
BAKER, Samuel Son M 6 1865 Sussex
BAKER, Mary Alice Daughter F 0 1871

1891 census - household transcription
Person: BAKER, Elizabeth
Address: 46, Taylor Street, Tunbridge, Southborough, Tunbridge Wells
BAKER, Thomas Head Married M 61 1830 Chimney Sweep
France British Subject VIEW
BAKER, Elizabeth Wife Married F 58 1833
Tunbridge Wells
Kent

He is deceased by 1901

1901 census - household transcription
Person: BAKER, Elizabeth
Address: 46, Taylor Street, Southborough
BAKER, Elizabeth Head Widow F 68 1833 Charwoman
Tunbridge Wells
Kent VIEW
BAKER, George Grand Son Single M 10 1891
Woodford
Essex

this is the baptism

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™
THOMAS BAKER Pedigree
Male
Christening: 03 JUN 1832 Frant, Sussex, England

Parents:
Mother: JANE BAKER Family

Extracted birth or christening record
Source Information:
Batch No.:

J148463

I’m sorry I am not ignoring you, but I’m at work on a pc that is not playing ball today.

Ladykira, what can I say!! Although I did say I had the census, but thank you anyway it did confirm my research.

But that is interesting about the Hudson, you found, but I have no way to prove it sadly

Jane is not the one on the 1841 census, though as by then she had been married, and widowed, and was living with her next husband, although not yet married. She died in 1860 and her other 3 children was taken in by her brothers.
Thomas himself died in 1897, and oddly his wife in the 1901 census is living a few doors away from a member of another branch of my family

And yes that is the baptism you have.

Well looking at that it is clear that he was consistent. He was in a group of people from Frant and the enumerator did not get the wrong. Records from France are not my speciality. I would love a few tips on those for several of mine.

This one is interesting

1841 census - household transcription
Person: MEPHAM, Jane
Address: Frant Forest, Frant
STAPLEY, Thomas M 53 1788 Sussex VIEW
STAPLEY, Margarett F 13 1828 Sussex VIEW
MEPHAM, Jane F 33 1808 Sussex VIEW
MEPHAM, Mark M 7 1834 Sussex VIEW
AUSTIN, Elizabeth F 85 1756 Sussex

It might be useful to view the actual baptism register or film of it. There may be added information about the child's father.

Gwyn

Yes that is Jane with her 2nd husband........

It was odd as I had been looking for the 1841 census for Thomas for a while, but there were too many to choose from, in fact I had more or less decided he must still be in France, then I found the baptism in Frant, and everything else fell into place, his mother, her siblings and her parents! I was careful at first but when you consider I knew he was a sweep, it seemed so obvious I wonder how I'd missed it!

Just as a little aside, the chimney sweeping continued right down to my father, and I still have the brushes, and di ours until we moved 10 years ago!

edit - Gwen I was wondering that myself, hoping to get down that way for a few days as I have a lot from the Kent, Surrey and Sussex areas