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hi what a lot of info you have found
i havent got the 1911 cenus think i am gonna have to subscribe to it.
but i still dont know how to use this site properly
thanks for the info
best wishes
yvonne

Having spent over 2 1/2 hours banging my head against a brick wall, off to apply a cold compress.

I don't really have a good 'gut feeling' with any of this - apart with the 1911 which you probably have anyway!

Has anyone previously come up with a 1901 census which shows the spouse of Mrs A M Clowes, cos I can't find one that fits, nor a marriage about 1884.

If we assume Herbert, the apparent eldest was named after his father, this could be a relevant death of Mrs Clowe's husband

Deaths Sep 1909 (>99%)
CLOWES Herbert 50 Wolstanton 6b 50

If anyone else fancies taking on the CLOWES challenge, inparticular in finding more living relatives, feel free!!!!

Marriage for Elizabeth???

Elizabeth Clowes/Lear (link won't work for 1st names)
Spouse Surname: Lear
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1920
Registration district: Wolstanton
Registration county (inferred): Staffordshire
Volume Number: 3b
Page Number: 223

This may be a wild goose chase, but possible births for marriages Groom Lear, Bride Clowes

Births Jun 1921 (>99%)
Lear Cecilia Clowes Wolstanton 6b 250
Births Jun 1923 (>99%)
Lear Freda Clowes Stoke T. 6b 233
Births Dec 1928 (>99%)
Lear Beryl Clowes Doncaster 9c 1342

???

Births Dec 1896 (>99%)
Clowes Mary Maria Wolstanton 6b 115

Births Jun 1905 (>99%)
Clowes Harry Wolstanton 6b 113

Births Mar 1902 (>99%)
CLOWES Elizabeth May Wolstanton 6b 112

Possible?
Births Mar 1893 (>99%)
Clowes George Edwin Wolstanton 6b 126

Births Jun 1883 (>99%)
CLOWES William Wolstanton 6b 125
Births Mar 1884 (>99%)
Clowes William James Wolstanton 6b 170 (unlikely to be this one)
Births Jun 1884 (>99%)
Clowes William Wolstanton 6b 119

Births Mar 1886 (>99%)
CLOWES Sarah Annie Wolstanton 6b 136

Marriage
Sarah Annie Clowes/George Henry Durber
Year of Registration: 1903
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Wolstanton
County: Staffordshire
Volume: 6b
Page: 218

Births Jun 1894 (>99%)
Clowes Sabrah Ann Wolstanton 6b 131

Of the four, I'd tend to go with the first one. The registration district of Wolstanton covers Tunstall, but you really, really need his BC before we charge off in the wrong direction.

Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born Original
census
image

DEANE, John Francis Head Married M 34 1877 Farmer Staffordshire VIEW
DEANE, Elizabeth Annie Wife Married
5 years F 34 1877 Cheshire Macclesfield VIEW
DEANE, Harry Alfred Son M 5 1906 Staffordshire Eccleshall VIEW
DEANE, Bernard Son M 2 1909 Staffordshire Eccleshall VIEW
LATHAM, Sarah Servant Single F 20 1891 Kitchen Maid Domestic Staffordshire Longbridge Hayes VIEW
LATHAM, Florance Servant Single F 16 1895 Kitchen Maid Domestic Staffordshire Chelsey VIEW
CLOWES, John Servant Single M 20 1891 Under Waggoner On Farm Ipstones Staffs VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
16388 Reference:
RG14PN16388 RG78PN1015 RD358 SD2 ED2 SN17

Registration District:
Stone Sub District:
Eccleshall EnumerationDistrict:
2 Parish:
Eccleshall

Address:
Walton Farm Eccleshall Staffordshire

Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born Original
census
image

CLEWS, Richard Head Widower M 54 1857 Road Labourer Blakeley Kingsley VIEW
CLEWS, John Son Single F 19 1892 Railway Porter Stoke on Trent VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
16372 Reference:
RG14PN16372 RG78PN1014 RD358 SD1 ED7 SN46

Registration District:
Stone Sub District:
Stone EnumerationDistrict:
7 Parish:
Stone Rural

Address:
Tittensor Stoke on Trent County:
Staffordshire

ame Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born Original
census
image

HUGHES, Lucy Head Widow F 62 1849 Hanley Staffordshire VIEW
HUGHES, Olive Daughter Single F 23 1888 Ware Cleaner Dipping House Hanley Staffordshire VIEW
HUGHES, John Richard Son Widower M 39 1872 Coal Miner Loader Hanley Staffordshire VIEW
HUGHES, John Richard Daughter Single F 12 1899 School Bucknall Staff VIEW
HUGHES, Emily Daughter Single F 8 1903 School Bucknall Staff VIEW
HUGHES, John R B Son Single M 1 1910 London Read Staff VIEW
CLEWES, John Boarder Single M 23 1888 Raodman Underground Miner Hanley Staff VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
16524 Reference:
RG14PN16524 RG78PN1022 RD361 SD1 ED14 SN234

Registration District:
Stoke upon Trent Sub District:
Hanley EnumerationDistrict:
14 Parish:
Hanley

Address:
48 Mount Street Hanley Stoke-On-Trent

No John V Clowes b 1890 being offered for 1911 (FMP) so, viewing all possibles. If you already know his parents names, it would help if you told us!

ame Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born Original
census
image

CLOWES, A M Head Widow F 41 1870 Charwoman Tunstall Stoke on Trent Staffs VIEW
CLOWES, Herbert Son Married M 28 1883 Biscuts Placer Tunstall Stoke on Trent VIEW
CLOWES, William Son Married M 27 1884 Potters Biscuits Placer Tunstall Stoke on Trent VIEW
DURBER, S A Daughter Married F 25 1886 Poters Spunger Tunstall Stoke on Trent Staffs VIEW
CLOWES, J Son M 22 1889 Tile Placer Tunstall Stoke on Trent Staffs VIEW
CLOWES, George Son M 18 1893 Tile Placer Tunstall Stoke on Trent Staffs VIEW
CLOWES, Sabura Daughter F 17 1894 Poters Mold Runer L Tunstall Stoke on Trent Staffs VIEW
CLOWES, Mary Daughter F 15 1896 Lithographer Tunstall Stoke on Trent Staffs VIEW
CLOWES, Elizabeth Daughter F 8 1903 School Tunstall Stoke on Trent Staffs VIEW
CLOWES, Ahrry (Harry) Son M 6 1905 School Tunstall Stoke on Trent Staffs VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
16473 Reference:
RG14PN16473 RG78PN1020 RD360 SD2 ED17 SN270

Registration District:
Wolstanton Sub District:
Tunstall EnumerationDistrict:
17 Parish:
Tunstall

Address:
7 Piccadilly St Tunstall Stoke - on Trent

Married 27 Years, 9 live births, 2 since died.

Marriage not found - anyone else up for it?

SEARCHING FOR CLOWES

Although I suspect you already have this.

Birth of John V Clowes, your grandfather: at least it's the closest in age which would fit the bill

Births Sep 1890 (>99%)
Clowes John Vernon Wolstanton 6b 114

You have his marriage and death.

Sooo ... interesting.

Let's keep the Rhodes-s and Clowes-s separate for now. I'll start with Rhodes. (I have to get on to some work - maybe DET or someone else will run with Clowes.)

This is the marriage certificate you have - the data from the GRO index at FreeBMD

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

Marriages Jun 1873
Brown George Wolstanton 6b 188
> HALL Fanny Wolstanton 6b 188
HANKEY Martha Wolstanton 6b 188
> RHODES James Wolstanton 6b 188

You ordered that? or you actually have an original passed down??


Note 1873 rather than 1843 - that makes a lot more sense since it's not likely that someone who married in 1922 had parents married in 1843!

Do play around at FreeBMD to find all these things too.

This is the Rhodes-Clowes marriage:

Marriages Dec 1922
CLOWES John V Rhodes Stoke T. 6b 379
RHODES Elsie Clowes Stoke T. 6b 379

To be very sure you are following Elsie's line correctly, you need that certificate which will tell you her age when she married and her father's name.

Even if you don't subscribe to Ancestry, the 1881 census is free there.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=7572

We could find you the household of James and Fanny Rhodes (with children born before 1881 - but you can do it too and I always think that is vastly more fun than someone else copying it for you.

Just search for Mark Rhodes with parents James and Fanny - the names are unusual enough that this info will find them.

You can put that info here, and if you don't subscribe, we can find the later censuses for you.

Just so we're all clear, can you just say too: it is your dad's ancestors you are looking for, rather than living family? Both DET and I weren't sure. But you did ask about searching for living relations.

If it's living family of Elsie's siblings, for instance, then it's a matter of identifying the siblings and looking for their marriages (at FreeBMD), and hopefully finding them in the 1911 census wtih spouses and kids, and then the kids' marriages, so on. You can try the 1911 for free too:

http://www.1911census.co.uk/search/tnaform.aspx

(There are ways of finding info there without paying, e.g. by finding one of the people you're interested in and then seeing who else with that surname is "living with" them. But also there are members here with subscriptions who can help with that.)

I think we're not sure what you are looking to know, and how familiar you are with the resources.

Those searches - finding the marriages and children of Elsie's siblings - would also give you names to search for in trees here, although I imagine you have searched for the siblings' names you have already.

hi janey
you are spot on my dads death and my grandfathers death
i have got a marrage cert but cant read it
its got on it a fanny hall .and a james rhodes
think the date is 1843 i think this is my grandmothers mum
but cant be sure
i have also got a igi indivdual record for a henry clowes
parents are
john clowes (father)
sabrah (mother) note the unuasal way it is spelt
1814
my grandmother elsie rhodes
brothers and sisters
are emily rhodes about 1889
evaline rhodes about 1894
james rhodes about 1874
mark rhodes about 1880
sarah e rhodes about1887
they all lived at 56 well st tunstall staffordshire
just wish i had a lot more info to go on
but this al i know
thanks

Oops, what I didn't pick up on, because it was so confusing - you know your dad's mother's name, Rhodes.

So as DET said, any more info you can give about her, it will help to help.

Yikes, it looks like I hit the delete button by accident! I meant to edit ... this is what my post said:



Yvonne, if you give a little more detailed info here, we might be able to help.

You know when your father was born -- we have no clue! 1900, 1930, 1960? Dates and places are very important.

The slow methodical way of doing things just can't be avoided, most of the time. You may need his birth certificate to be sure of his mother's surname. Then his parents' marriage certificate to get their fathers' names. And so on.

It really helps if you space out the info you're giving (like I am hre) -- hit the Enter key when you get to the end of a thought, and make lists of names and dates and such, instead of running them all together, because that really is hard to follow.

Tell us what you have, and we'll see what we can find!

For starters, would this be your dad's death record?

Name: John Vernon Clowes
Birth Date: 7 Jun 1923
Death Registration Month/Year: May 2003
Age at death (estimated): 79
Registration district: Warrington
Inferred County: Cheshire, Lancashire
Register number: B69C
District and Subdistrict: 346/1B
Entry number: 137

If the name was passed down, maybe this was his father's death?

Name: John V Clowes
Death Registration Month/Year: 1954
Age at death (estimated): 64 [born about 1890]
Registration district: Stoke On Trent
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume: 9b
Page: 380



And what I was going to add was: search at FreeBMD

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

for all events for the name

CLOWES
John V

and you will find the birth of the John who died in 1954, and his marriage the year before the 1924 birth of John Vernon Clowes.