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Does anyone fancy a real challenge?

I have from the IGI James CUDWORTH marrying Betty Fletcher in Oct 1806,St. Chads Church Rochdale, Lancs. I have a death on Lancashire BMD for a Betty Cudworth in 1838. A marriage on the same site for James Cudworth marrying a Judith Wolfenden in 1846. So far so good,
I think James had the following children
Alice b1816
Frances b1821
Susan b1822
Robert b1826
Reuben b1829
Ellen b1830
and possibly Mary b1838
The 1841 I have found HO107; Piece 551; Book: 1; Civil Parish: Rochdale; County: Lancashire; Enumeration District: 1; Folio: 10; Page: 13; Line: 17; GSU roll: 306934.has all the children except the suspect Mary and first born Alice. There is no wife, so I presume the death of Betty I found is correct. The 1851 I have found HO107; Piece: 2245; Folio: 4; Page: 1; GSU roll: 87264-87265. now has Betty back on it and just the son Reuben..
My question is did Betty die, and if so why is she back on the 1851 and if he married Judith where is she on the 1851.
Any help would be appreciated as this is drivng me nuts.
Many thanks
Ann

Do the wives ages and birthplaces match? My gt grandfather had two wives, the first was Annie who is called Annie on all censuses before her early death, the second was Sarah - who was called Annie on all censuses after he remarried! I don't know, Men and their bad habits...

19. Judith - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Birth: 12 OCT 1827 Broadlane, Rochdale, Lancashire, England

20. Judeth Wolfenden - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Female Birth: 12 OCT 1827 Rochdale, Lancashire, England

If you check the census. the others are on there as well, except for Betty.


Name: Alice Cudworth
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1816
Gender: Female
Where born: Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Rochdale
Hundred: Salford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Rochdale
Sub-registration district: Spotland Nearer Side
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Alice Cudworth 25
Mary Cudworth 2


View
Original
Record

View original image

JUDITH CUDWORTH Pedigree
Female


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 03 OCT 1831 Bacup, Lancashire, England
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Parents:
Mother: BETTY CUDWORTH Family
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Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

JUDITH CUDWORTH Pedigree
Female
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 23 APR 1805 Bacup, Lancashire, England
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Parents:
Father: JAMES CUDWORTH Family
Mother: BETTY
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

JUDITH CUDWORTH Pedigree
Female
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 15 APR 1803 Hallfold Evangelical Presbyterian, Spotland, Lancashire, England

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: JAS. CUDWORTH Family
Mother: ELIZ.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

Could she have visiting a relative. Does not state that they are married. The original is not clear to read any further info.


Name: Betty Cudworth
Age: 52
Estimated birth year: abt 1789
Gender: Female
Where born: Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Rochdale
Hundred: Salford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Rochdale
Sub-registration district: Whitworth and Brandwood
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Jno Cudworth 58
Betty Cudworth 52

BVRI has these children of James & Betty:

CUDWORTH, John Christening
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 15 Mar 1807 Recorded in: Bacup, Lancashire, England
Collection: St John; BTs
Father: James CUDWORTH
Mother: Betty
Source: FHL Film 1040341 Dates: 1807 - 1827

CUDWORTH, Samuel Christening
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 28 Apr 1807 Recorded in: Bacup, Lancashire, England
Collection: St John; BTs
Father: James CUDWORTH
Mother: Betty
Source: FHL Film 1040341 Dates: 1807 - 1827

CUDWORTH, Samuel Christening
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 28 Sep 1809 Recorded in: Bacup, Lancashire, England
Collection: St John; BTs
Father: James CUDWORTH
Mother: Betty
Source: FHL Film 1040341 Dates: 1807 - 1827

CUDWORTH, Selina Christening
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 6 May 1811 Recorded in: Bacup, Lancashire, England
Collection: St John; BTs
Father: James CUDWORTH
Mother: Betty
Source: FHL Film 1040341 Dates: 1807 - 1827

CUDWORTH, Samuel Christening
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 9 Feb 1814 Recorded in: Bacup, Lancashire, England
Collection: St John; BTs
Father: James CUDWORTH
Mother: Betty
Source: FHL Film 1040341 Dates: 1807 - 1827

CUDWORTH, Reuben Christening
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 4 Jun 1816 Recorded in: Bacup, Lancashire, England
Collection: St John; BTs
Father: James CUDWORTH
Mother: Betty
Source: FHL Film 1040341 Dates: 1807 - 1827

There are also deaths for a Betty Cudworth in 1843,1849,1858 & 1859.

There are a few trees on Ancestry that have the same info that you have but it doesn't make sense to me that a couple would marry in 1806 but not have any children until 1816 and then be still having children in 1830 or even 1838. If Betty was 20 at marriage in 1806 she would be 44 in 1830 and 52 in 1838. Not impossible I guess.

I am sorry to appear dim, but i am still not sure what to make of the all fantastic info you have all found, are we saying there are 2 James Cudworths both marryinb Betty's

Thanks everyone for all the help so far, but I am still confused

Ann

I agree about the marriage in 1806 and waiting 10 years to have children was very unusual

Ann

what was james occupation please

Betty Cudworth seems to be quite a common name in the area so could be various families.

Also found 2 Reuben Cudworth baptism & 1matching death

Baptisms: 4 Jun 1816 St John, Bacop, Lancashire, England
Reuben Cudworth - Son of James Cudworth & Betty
Abode: Shawforth
Occupation: Mason
Baptised by: Wm Porter
Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1818, Page 63, Entry 502
Source: LDS Film 559156

Burial: 18 Sep 1818 St Chad, Rochdale, Lancashire, England
Ruben Cudworth - Son of James Cudworth
Age: 2 yrs
Abode: Shawforth
Buried by: Thos. Royds
Register: Burials 1818 from the Bishops Transcripts, Page 49, Entry 392
Source: LDS Film 1545794

Baptisms: 2 Sep 1827 St Chad, Rochdale, Lancashire, England
Reuben Cudworth - Child of James Cudworth & Betty
Abode: Meadow Head
Occupation: Weaver
Baptised by: Edw. Martin Curate
Register: Baptisms 1827 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page 86, Entry 676
Source: LDS Film 1545795

I think as the occupations of the fathers were v different that there were at least 2 sets of James & betty Cudworths

if you do a search on lan-opc.org.uk you will find quite a lot of baptism to a James & Betty. It is possible to match some addresses eg Robert & Reuben match on address & place of baptism. others are in Bacup rather than Rochdale but with the same address of Shawforth

Have a look and see what you think. Prepare to be even more confused!!

I think it's possible that they're the same James & Betty and you just missed those earlier births. They must have had a lot of children who died, there are 3 Samuels in the early births. Also the early Reuben died and they had another one. The early births make sense for a couple married in 1806, the births start in 1807.

Update, just read Lancashire Ann's comments, makes sense, perhaps I'm wrong. It's happened before.

It is Susan born 1822 who married Robert Ashworth, that is my relative

Can anyone find her baptism please
Ann

If you can wait until Friday I will have a look at St Chad's parish registers

have you got Susan's marriage details

EDIT
just checked St Chad's online - no Susan
IGI gives this one which is in the right area -so will check that one - it is a submitted record so may not be correct

SUSAN CUDWORTH
10 FEB 1823 St Bartholomews, Whitworth, Lancashire, England
Parents:
Father: JAMES CUDWORTH
Mother: BETTY FLETCHER

if Whitworth is the right church should find the other baptisms.

It would help to know what James occupation was please

If Whitworth is right could this be James - you have not said when he was born

Baptism: 10 Feb 1782 St Bartholomew, Whitworth, Lancashire, England
James Cudworth - son of John Cudworth & Alce
Abode: Slacks
Register: Baptism 1776 - 1800, Page 2, Entry 24
Source: LDS Film 1545948

Baptism: 5 Dec 1825 St Chad, Rochdale, Lancashire, England
Robt. Cudworth - Son of Jas. Cudworth & Betty
Abode: Meadowheads
Occupation: Weaver
Baptised by: Jas. Aspinall Curate
Register: Baptisms 1825 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page 134, Entry 1071
Source: LDS Film 1545793

Baptism: 2 Sep 1827 St Chad, Rochdale, Lancashire, England
Reuben Cudworth - Child of James Cudworth & Betty
Abode: Meadow Head
Occupation: Weaver
Baptised by: Edw. Martin Curate
Register: Baptisms 1827 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page 86, Entry 676
Source: LDS Film 1545795