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Hi all

I don't think he would have been a chemist, being a labourer in 1911 according to census.

It looks likely that they are the correct Ethel and Lily - though I agree they may have been with different mothers. They seemed to move around a bit but perhaps as a labourer he would go wherever there was work? There may have been two James's - or he may have had a good reason for changing his name!

I will send for one or both birth certs as you suggest - thanks so much, at least I have a little more to go on now!

xx

Hi Linda,

I can't see Mary J, James or Ethel on the 1901 census, I would suggest you maybe order one off the girls birth certs (Ethel or my preference Lily).

The marriage in 1893 of James Pitchford to Mary Jane Ash maybe the one for you.... interestingly there was a James Pitchford born in 1871 in Wolverhampton... I can see him on the 1871 and 1881 census..... the 1891 census he is not with his parents and I can't see him!!! Nor on the 1901 census........... maybe knowing his occupation would help in the search??



Dee x

And this birth;

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Births Mar 1902 (>99%)
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Pitchford Lily Cheltenham 6a 444a




Dee x

Here's Ethels birth;



Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

Births Mar 1896 (>99%)
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Pitchford Ethel Loughbro' 7a 144



This would tie in



Dee x

Could Ethel be the child of James Smith and not Mary Jane?
There is an Ethel Smith aged 5 b Loughborough in 1901 but she is the child of JOHN Smith and his wife Emma. He is an agricultural chemist b 1861 Nottingham
What are the details of the Mr Smith in 1911?

Not them then. Pitchford Children were Mary Ann and James, 1912 and 1916, both born Kidderminster.

Unfortunately I have to go out now - but I will check later in case there are any more responses.

Thank you all so much for trying to help - it really is much appreciated but not sure how far I am going to be able to go with this one.

xx

Hi,

That couple seem to be still together in 1911;

HOUSEHOLD PITCHFORD JAMES M 1874 37 Stoke upon Trent Staffordshire
HOUSEHOLD PITCHFORD MARY JANE F 1867 44 Stoke upon Trent Staffordshire


Dee x

HI Gillian

Yes, that would make perfect sense - but I've just remembered that the death certificate gave her husband as James Pitchford - as the informant? Unless they got back together in later life?!!!

No, I can't find them anywhere else - as Smith or Pitchford - so I'm really not sure which one she would be.

The 1893 marriage
Mary Jane Ash to James Pitchford 1893 Wolverhampton 6b 663

This looks like them is 1901
James Pitchford 27 Blacksmiths striker b Newcastle under lyne
Mary J Pitchford 33 Potters Warehousewoman b Stoke on Trent

Dont assume that because they claim to be married in 1911 that it is so -she may have just left James (no children in 8 years might be a reason) and set up home with Mr Smith, had children with him and later if he left , any children would have borne her name which was still Pitchford.

There is a birth for Mary Jane Ash in Mar q 1872 in Wolverhampton which would tie in with the age on her death certificate.

There is also one in Jun q 1877 in Stone which would tie in with the age in the 1911 census.

Have you found them in 1901 census

Chris

Hi Dee

He was a general labourer

Sorry Linda, I should have asked what James's occupation was?


Dee x

Thanks Chris. The only thing I have is her death certificate which says she was 80 in 1952 - I suppose she could have been younger?

Just edited my earlier reply.

Chris

This is where things get really strange - Loughborough - and Lelly in Cheltenham?

Sorry Chris our replies crossed. I know it gives her age as 24 but that wouldn't be possible given Ethell's age and the length of her marriage.

Where was Ethel born, I can see that the other children were born kidderminster... but not her.


Dee x

Sorry, forget to say it also said she had been married for 18 years and that James was born in Wolverhampton too but can't find a James Smith and Mary Ash being married at that time?

Her year of birth in 1911 census is given as 1887.

Chris

Edit On the original image it looks like age is 33 which gives birth year of 1877/78