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You're welcome!!!

I'll send you a link to a dictionary where you can look up "sarcastic" if you like. As I so oft am wont to say, "sarcastic" really isn't just a generic insult, and nothing I said was sarcastic.

Well, except maybe something just recently ...

Thanks Linda B for your input I would have ordered certs but when the people in this house are employed I will be able to do this. We are not all experts Janey like yourself and some of your comments are a little sarcastic and uncalled for. So in future I will try not to repeat myself asking for any info on my family and by the way I am quite serious about tracing my roots with or with-out help.

My problem Janey...I was so trying to convince Jane to order the marriage cert I did not look at her previous thread.

Linda

Oops just realised I have duplicated info that was on your previous thread Jane..

Edit....Possibly Jane if you post a thread (without naming names!!) perhaps on the tips board asking if there is a website etc where there is information on tracing French ancestors? Getting away from "the one topic one board" etc. Just a thought.

Linda

The 1901 census is in Jane's previous thread, and I don't think that or the 1891 census info are in issue.

1901 census...

Name: Paul Martin
Age: 56
Estimated birth year: abt 1845
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: France...Paris on the image.

Civil parish: St Helen
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: St Helen
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Prescot
Sub-registration district: St Helens
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 83
Household Members: Name Age
Paul Martin 56
Sarah Martin 54
Blanche Martin 21
William H Martin 13

Possible 1891 census...

Name: Paul Martin
Age: 46
Estimated birth year: abt 1845
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Paris

Civil parish: Windle
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: St Helens
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Prescot
Sub-registration district: St Helens
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Paul Martin 46
Sarah Martin 44 >>>born Wellington, Somerset
Blanche Martin 11
William Hy Martin 3

PLEASE order the 1878 marriage cert..

From Lancashire bmd website... they married at Salford Registry Office or possibly at a church ie Roman Catholic as it states there was a registar in attendance..

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/

Perhaps this:

- to pursue a question you have already asked, add a message to that thread, rather than waste others' time when they go looking for things that are not lost, because they were already found

- when someone has given you accurate information about something, in this case the official record of the marriage of Sarah and Paul in 1878, keep a record of it, and then don't come back 2 years later with nonsense someone somewhere has made up out of whole cloth, in this case a marriage in 1861 between people who were 15 years old

You've had the marriage record info for a year and a half and haven't obtained the certificate that would give you Paul's father's name and occupation (if he declared them), and Paul's occupation at the time of the marriage (which might give you an idea of whether the Paul from 1871 is the same person). If you really wanted to trace your roots, I think you would do that.

And yes, the spelling of his name on his headstone IS wrong, if he was French, because "Augustus" is NOT a French name, it is the English version of the French name Auguste. Like it or not, believe me or not.

Thanks for the help some positive and some not . I'm sorry for asking for more help but I thought that was what the board was all about seems not with some of the comments. yes I have asked before but asked for help this time trying to trace Augustus Paul Theodore Martin before he came to the U.K. and the spelling of his name is on the headstone so perhaps that is wrong also??
Thanks everyone

Ancestry 1871 Sarah Bowerman visitor from Wellington Somerset in Salford. Ancestry 1881 Sarah Martain wife of Paul T. from Wellington Somerset. My mother told me of my great grandfather being French born in Paris she knew from her mother who was his daughter also we have French names in the family such as Constant born died same year 1881 .Theodore, Blanche , Lucien Fournet my father name.

I just googled his name and discovered that you have had this same question on the board before.


"Before posting, please read the guidelines for message board use."
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/?wci=grstatic&type=guidelines
"Don't submit the same – or similar – material more than once."


AUGUSTUS PAUL THEODORE MARTIN
Augustus Paul Theodore Martin born and died dates
Jane 29/09/2008 22:19:38 15 replies
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1077167


And in that thread you were given:

Name: Sarah Bowerman to Paul Martin
Year of Registration: 1878
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Salford
County: Greater Manchester, Lancashire
Volume: 8d
Page: 189 (click to see others on page


And after all that you are still insisting on nonsense like them marrying in 1861.

I'm done!

Since you haven't located the correct info for the marriage - as easy as it is to do - here it is:

Marriages Sep ***1878***
> BOWERMAN Sarah Salford 8d 189
> MARTIN Paul Salford 8d 189
QUIGLEY Margaret Salford 8d 189
STANTON Richard Salford 8d 189

So wherever you got the bogus information about 1861 from, I wouldn't believe another word it says.

Now if you get the marriage certificate you may find his father's name on it.

It will also have her father's name so you can confirm her family in earlier censuses.

Also, his name would have been Auguste, not Augustus, which is the anglicized version. I suspect the same of Martain. When you pronounce Martin in French, it might sound like Martain to an English ear.

He died in 1907 in Prescot Lancashire aged 62 years also states he was born about 1845 this on free BDM 1837-1983 . Glitter Baby has come up with the same info I have

You say Sarah was in Salford in 1871.


Name: Sarah Bowerman
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1845
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Female
>>> Condition as to marriage: unmarried (from the image)
Where born: Wellington, Somerset, England
Civil parish: Pendleton

Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
Town: Salford
County/Island: Lancashire


Why would she be called Sarah Bowerman if she was married?? What suggests this was your Sarah?

There are two very young children in 1881. This suggests they were recently married.

Have you obtained a child's birth certificate so you know what her surname actually was?

Jane, do think about it. Sarah was 34 in 1881, Paul was 36.

How could they have married in 1861? She would have been 14 or 15.

Where on Ancestry did you get it? Some fool's family tree, or a genuine record?

The genuine records are available here for free:

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

and there is just no such marriage.


How do you know he was "definitely born in Paris"?? Do you have an official record that states this? A census is not an official record of birthplace, and it is really not wise to state as facts things that you don't have valid confirmation of!

The Paul Martin I found in 1871 might well not be him. But if he and Sarah married in 1861, where is he in 61 and 71?

On Ancestry the spelling is sometimes spelt Martin or Martain he was definateley born in Paris but to confuse the issue he went by the name of Paul Theodore and dropped the Augustus he was my Great grandfarther and is buried in the family grave along side my parents where it gives his full name

This looks rather like him in 1871

Name: Paul Martin
Age: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1844
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Marseilly, France
Occupation: sailor

Civil parish: St Giles in The Fields
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: St Giles

He is boarding with a family named Haddock, so maybe that's where he learned the fish shop trade. ;) (Actually he isn't, he's in a lodging house that Ancestry has wrongly attached to the preceding household.)

From Sarah's age in 1881 there's no way they married in 1861.

With him being a sailor, I rather suspect that Marseilles is the correct birthplace and he took to saying Paris because enumerators couldn't spell Marseilles. It's spelled correctly on the census in 1871, it's just that Ancestry can't read.

He married sarah in Leigh manchester in 1861 this info i got from ancestry.co also in the 1871 census Sarah was listed as living in salford but born in Wellington Somerset

French surname distribution info

http://www.geopatronyme.com
http://www.geopatronyme.com/cgi-bin/carte/nomcarte.cgi?nom=martain&submit=Valider&client=cdip

I'm not absolutely convinced Martain is a French surname, but that site does show a total of 62 births 1891-1966. Martin, of course, is an extremely common French surname. Banks in Canada use "Jean Martin" as a standard name for sample credit card pictures, e.g., because it works as an English woman or a French man. ;)

Thought I'd look at the marriage record to see how his name was recorded there. Where is this info from? -- "Married Sarah Bowerman in 1861 in Leigh Manchester." Not from the GRO index as far as I can tell.