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Bea,

Thanks for your interest. Lucy Papworth was born abt. 1821 in Shadwell, Middlesex (Docklands). I haven't done much research about her yet, but always interested to hear from others!

Coincidentally, I have just received the certificate for William Robert Heath Clayton's second marriage to Caroline Piggott in June 1873. And yes, it says he is a widower - but we shall see...

Have also sent for Lucy Ann Clayton (nee Erixon's) death cert and very frustrated that it didn't arrive in the same post!

Turns out William's second marriage was fairly short-lived: Caroline, a widow, remarried in 1879. Not sure whether I will ever find William RH Clayton's death though - there are so many possibles ...

But, very soon, I hope to have the answer to my original question on this post - i.e. did William remarry before Lucy died?

Liz

wow what a fasinating story, have got Papworths in my tree, wonder if they are related lol rgards Bx

No no, Liz, you actually did exactly the right thing, using the existing thread, although I might have just indicated in the first post that there were new questions on page 2 and put them there, but it all came out fine, lol.

Bruce,

This is all great advice - thank you so much for your thoughts. Will order the certificates to find out for sure what was going on.

Andy, thank you for looking up the criminal record ... how awful! The mind boggles as to how they could be charged with indecent exposure and then acquitted. Either they were being indecent or they weren't ... best not go there! I must have a look for the court transcript.

Finally, my apologies that the thread has become confusing. I gave a lot of thought to how best to edit and add to the thread, or whether to start a new one. Seems I made it worse.
Liz

William and a Caroline Johnston were aquitted of Indecent Exposure.

Andy

Also hopefully someone reading can access the criminal records at Ancestry for you to give you the offence for the record you asked about, your opening post is now a little confusing so I'll just repeat it here for you

'On Ancestry there are some criminal records for a Wm. Clayton of Middx. in particular 11 Aug 1873.'

Without trying to figure out what the rest of the thread is about, lol, the only way you can find out whether the widower married before the first wife's death is to get the actual certificates since the date of registration does not reflect the date of the event.

Back in 1873 people were not likely asked for a death certificate to prove they were widowed when they married.

You have

Deaths Dec 1873
Clayton Lucy Ann 47 Stepney 1c 376

Marriages Jun 1873
Clayton William Robert H Poplar 1c 1245

which is actually two quarters apart and that would make a very late registration for Lucy if she died in Jun Q but it is possible. You should really get the certificates to find out for sure. His marriage certificate should also specify his status at the time at least as he reported it.

On the other hand, people who were already married can and did marry again without waiting to be widowed, lol.

In case you aren't familiar this is where to order certificates

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/faqs-order-online.asp

with the 'GRO reference' information from FreeBMD above.

Nudge because I've edited the thread ...

Wow, that makes interesting reading. 18 months' hard labour for those found guilty.

Also found on this page from the 'Erixon' search was Christopher Erixon, (probably Joseph's grandfather) who had his drawers pinched!

Excellent stuff.

Thank you so much Andy.

Liz

Liz

Have just checked out

http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/forms/formMain.jsp

Put in Joseph Erixon's name and have a read of the trial transcript

Andy

Andy,

Thanks for your help once again.

Seems a bit harsh to be tried at the Old Baily for that. Amazing (and scary!).

Thank you,

Liz

Here is the criminal record


England & Wales, Criminal Registers, 1791-1892
about Joseph Erixon
Name: Joseph Erixon
Date of Trial: 8 Jan 1883
Trial Year: 1883
Location of Trial: Kent, England
Sentence: Acquittal
Crime: See Image
Date of Execution or Release: See Image

Charged with possessing counterfiet coin
Trial was at Central Criminal Court - the Old Bailey

Andy

I'd be so grateful if a kind researcher could do the following lookup on Ancestry for me:

Joseph ERIXON
England & Wales, Criminal Registers 1791-1892: Joseph Erixon 8 Jan 1883 - Kent, England

The Joseph Erixon I'm interested in was born 1850 in St. Geo. East, Middx.

1851 Living with parents Joseph & Lucy in Tarling St. St. Geo East;
1861 Living with mother Lucy & stepfather Edward Beech
1871 Can't find him on census
1881 Possibly Joseph Erricson living at 60 Wentworth Street (part of Petticoat Lane); I believe this was the heart of the overcrowded tenements in the Jewish quarter of Docklands;
1891 census - can't find him, if census was in April he was still living??
1891 - Sept. possible death in Poplar, London.

Thank you so much,
Liz

Hi Sharon,

Thanks for this new record. No, I hadn't seen it. I should think it's quite possible he remarried.

I believe I have seen other spellings for Christopher such as Kristopher, in parish records, but overlooked them because the spouse's name didn't look right.

I've probably been too blinkered!

Many thanks
Liz

The originals of all these records are available on Ancestry. If you don't have access PM your Email I I'll send them, if you want them

Andy

Possibles for marriage maybe??

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Christopher Araxan
Name: Christopher Araxan
Spouse Name: Margaret Savall
Record Type: Banns
Event Date: 4 May 1817
Parish: Saint Dunstan And All Saints
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets


or

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Christopher Arajaw
Name: Christopher Arajaw
Spouse Name: Margaret Savall
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 22 Sep 1817
Parish: Saint Dunstan And All Saints
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets



Andy

Oooh ... Arixon is a variation I hadn't thought of searching before.

Just tried a search on Ancestry, for census matches, but nothing yet.

Thank you so much for finding these details, Andy.

Liz.

Do you have this record?

Name: Cristopher Erixon
Spouse Name: Jane Wilkes
Record Type: Banns
Event Date: 18 Oct 1829
Parish: Christ Church, Spitalfields
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets

Could he have remarired?

Possibly related?

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Eleanor Latitia Arixon
Name: Eleanor Latitia Arixon
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 5 Nov 1820
Father's Name: Christopher Arixon
Mother's Name: Margaret Arixon
Parish: Saint John Of Wapping
Borough: Tower Hamlets
County: Middlesex

Andy

Brilliant! Thanks Andy for swift response.

Liz