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Hi,

I am trying to find, most importantly [but any information would be welcome!], the death of Mary Elizabeth Butler [nee Hull]. She was born [my cousin says] 1881 in Heanor, Derbyshire, but she died in Nottingham somewhere between the 1911 census and 18/11/1914 when her daughter entered the Basford workhouse in Nottinghamshire, as an orphan. Her husband, George Butler, I believe, was still living at this time.

I have already obtained a death certificate, which was the wrong one! - for a Mary E Butler who died on 28/12/1914.

My cousin cannot find her death, and I am struggling also. Is there anyone who could help? PLEASE????

Many thanks.

Elaine

Suggest you look first for her birth registration to ensure that you have the correct info about her birth

What was her daughter's name? And when was she born?

Have you found her on the 1911 census?

Name: Mary Elizabeth Butler
Estimated birth year: abt 1881
Year of Registration: 1910
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 29
District: Basford
County: Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 127

This one would fit

Deaths Jun 1910 (92%)
BUTLER Mary Elizabeth 29 Basford 7b 127

Marriages Sep 1903 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Butler George Basford 7b 380
HULL Mary Elizabeth Basford 7b 380

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deaths Jun 1910 (92%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ashton David 44 Basford 7b 127
Atkin Urane 75 Basford 7b 127
BLOOD Mary 85 Basford 7b 127
BUTLER Alfred 0 Basford 7b 127
BUTLER Mary Elizabeth 29 Basford 7b 127
CARSON James Ewart 68 Basford 7b 127
CARTER Matilda 81 Basford 7b 127
PEACH Sarah 62 Basford 7b 127
PRICE Henry 83 Basford 7b 127

Hi Freewheel,

Her birth registration says that her mother was resident in Heanor at the time of her birth. I cannopt read the address or place of 'where born' on the certificate.

Hi Moody Blue,

I have indeed found her on the 1911 census - she is recorded as the wife of George Butler and the address is Chapel Street, New Eastwood Nottinghamshire.

Hi Starr,

This may well be her - but I cannot find her death!!!

Elaine

looking at deaths i put down
mary elizabeth died 1910 basford
also in list is alfred butler aged 0
wonder if she died in child birth

Hi Julie,

I am not disputing your expertise - but may I ask why you think a death in 1910 would fit, when she appeared on the 1911 census?

Elaine

Hi Starr,

Interesting theory! - I hadnt even thought of causes of death, but this could be a possibility.

I see that you agree with Julie - why would someone include her on the 1911 census when she died in the last quarter of 1910?????

Elaine

Please dont think I am ignoring you both - I have to get up early tomorrow [5am] so I am off to bed, but wil get back to you both tomorrow.

Many thanks for your replies.

Elaine

1911 for info ONLY

BUTLER DORRIS F 1901 10 Basford Nottinghamshire
BUTLER GEORGE M 1882 29 Basford Nottinghamshire
BUTLER MARYY ELIZBERTH F 1881 30 Basford Nottinghamshire

Sorry Elaine, i had gone to bed

I must admit i didn't see that you had said she was on the 1911

But as there is a death of an infant in the same qtr it looks like Mary died in child birth.......Maybe then George didn't want to admit that she had passed just in case Dorris was taken away.

The only way to know for sure if it is her would be to get that D/C im afraid

Thanks for replying Julie. I too had gone to bed!!!

The suggestion of dying in childbirth is a good one - it just puzzled me that she should appear on the census. Did they take children away because of stuff like that? I would have thought that with costs to the parish etc they would have 'preferred' to leave them with anyone else that would have taken care of them?

I will ask my father [again] if he remembers anything else that could give me a clue. His memory is not good at the best of times, but being 81 it is getting worse!!! [bless - it happens to us all]

I will post back later today, if I have any further information [clues] if you are interested?

Elaine

Mary Elizabeth's death was registered in the 2nd qtr (not the last qtr) of 1910, Very curious that she should appear on the 1911 census almost 12 months after her death?

I notice that on the 1911 census Mary Elizabeths birth place is given as Langley Mill Derbyshire. Is that the same as Heanor Derbyshire?

1911 Census Household Transcript
Name: Relationship to head: Marital Status: Years married: Sex: Age in 1911: Occupation: Where born:
BUTLER, GEORGE HEAD MARRIED M 29 COAL MINER HEWER HUCKNALL TORKARD NOTTS
BUTLER, MARYY ELIZBERTH WIFE MARRIED 8 F 30 LANGLEY MILL DERBYSHIRE
BUTLER, DORRIS DAUGHTER F 10 BASFORD NOTTS


BUTLER GEORGE (RG14PN20385 RG78PN1221 RD429 SD1 ED30 SN285)
Address 12 CHAPEL STREET NEW EASTWOOD NOTTINGHAMSHIRE County Nottinghamshire
District Basford Subdistrict Greasley
Enumeration District 30 Parish Eastwood

There is a Mary Elsie Hull that has that place of birth on the 1901 census.



1901 England Census
about Mary Elsie Hull
Name: Mary Elsie Hull
[Mary Elsie Betts]
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1881
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Thomas
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: Langley Mill, Derbyshire, England

Civil parish: Eastwood
Ecclesiastical parish: Eastwood St Mary
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Basford
Sub-registration district: Greasley
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 357
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Betts 65
Elizabeth Betts 66
Chester Hull 43
>>>>>>>>Mary Elsie Hull 20
>>>>>>>Doris Hull 2 months
Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 3144; Folio: 111; Page: 64.

Births Mar 1901
HULL Doris Nottingham 7b 436


was wondering if Mary Elsie and Mary Elizabeth were one and the same?

Hi Moody Blue,

Yes, you have found the correct person. I dont know why the name is recorded as Mary Elsie. The 'Betts' surname comes from her grandfather - who was her step-grandfather.

Yes - I find it VERY strange that she should appear on the 1911 census. Someone on another website suggested that maybe her stepfather couldnt look after her in some way [drink? etc] and that maybe he tried but she was taken away and 'orphaned'. Maybe he tried to pretend that her mother was still alive?

Anyway, I am going to bite the bullet and order the death certificate for the death suggested in 1910. I will let you know if this is the right one!!!

Thanks for your reply!

Elaine

ps/ if you are 'into' looking into 'lost causes' I will be posting on the 'trying to find' thread in a couple of minutes!!!!

Oh - and I asked my father and he can remember nothing!!! He has no memories of a grandmother [which means that she must have died by the time he was born - 1929]

Bless him - he can tell me stuff from when he was married - but for everything else, he refers me to my aunty who is older than him!!!!

The scary thing is - that I can 'feel' my memory going the same way!!!!! Is this hereditary????

Elaine

Hi,

I ordered and received the death cert suggested. It is not her.

The previous cert I ordered was also not her.

Before I spend a fortune ordering certs - does anyone have any tips advice for me? Someone at work was trying to explain that the GRO have a checking service? Will this save me some money?

Many thanks.

Elaine