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Hi Mavis, have now obtained a copy of Mary's marriage certificate to William Heseltine. She was described as a spinster, formerly Banks, so I think the answer is that both girls were born out of wedlock.

Mavis, thank you so much for all your help. After six years of searching for Eliza Louise and her sister I have now found them named Jenkinson as you suggested. Both birth certificates obtained and looks as though both were born out of wedlock particularly as no father is named for Mary Ellen.

You have also obtained more information than I ever hoped to get about Thomas William Bastin, the husband of Eliza.

Thank you once again.

Am awaiting Eliza's birth certificate will add new post when I receive it.

Beryl

This is all very confusing but Eliza's death was recorded by her sister Mary Ellen Foster and the husband's name was given as Thomas Banks, Attorney's clerk.

Henry Bastin does exist though because he is named in Kelly's Directory in Leeds Central Library and is shown as an engineer. So he has gone from gentleman to engineer to Attorney's clerk.

Beryl,
Take a look at the next lot of information it may help you.
Trudi

I have passed your information onto Beryl, I hope she is able to find a little more out with all your help.
It all sounds confusing but I am sure Beryl will continue searching. Many thanks again
Trudi

Trudi I the marriage I spoke of is Mary Banks and William Haseltine 1858
I doubt if he is Mary Ellen's father.

I have searched for a William Banks -- engraver none exist in 3 Censuses .
illegitimate children often invent a father when they marry, I have this in my own family

Eliza Louisa Jenkinson is the only Eliza Louisa born Leeds a purchase of one of the birth certs would hopefully prove mother was Mary Banks,
with Emma Banks being Marys sister more than likely.

Mavis

Mavis,
Just seen your reply. I have a copy of Mary Banks (1852) marriage certificate. Her father was William Banks on the certificate. She married at St Lukes Church in the parish of Leeds. April 10th 1871.
I know Mary Banks 1852 married my gt gt grandfather. Beryl is gt gt grandaughter to Eliza Louise Banks. She couldn't get back any further than her gt grandmothers birth (Ada Constance Bastin) Beryl also said she had been unable to trace Mary or Eliza birth certificates.
I will pass your information on to her.
Thank you.
Trudi

A possible marriage for Elizabeth/Eliza? From BVRI:

BAYSTON, Thomas Marriage
Wife: Elizabeth BANKS
Marriage Date: 14 May 1863 Recorded in: Scrayingham, Yorkshire, England
Husband's Father: William BAYSTON
Wife's Father: James BANKS
Source: FHL Film 1068396 Dates: 1859 - 1865

Trudi and Beryl, it has taken some working out but I may have cracked it as follows
1871 21 Lovell Rd Leeds
Louisa Bastin mar wife 28y Housekeeper born Leeds
Mary E Banks serv U 19y Domestic serv born Leeds

1861 11 Pine Court Leeds [ this will make sense later]
William Heselton mar 60y shoemaker born Boston
Mary Heselton mar 44y born Handley Staffs
Mary E Haselton 9y born Leeds
Emma Banks U sister in law 40y born Handley Staffs

Mary Banks = Wiliam Haseltine Mar Q 1858 Leeds 9b 326

1851 4 woodlands Yard Leeds [ a bit confusing but I think right]
Mary Jenkinson W 33y Stay maker boorn Swinton york.
Louisa Jenkinson 9y born Leeds
Emma Banks sister 29y stay maker born H / Danley Staffs

births
Eliza Louisa Jenkinson Jun Q 1842 Leeds 23 448
Mary Ellen Jenkinson Jun Q 1851 Leeds 23 513

I think Mary Banks has invented a husband of Jenkinson otherwise why did she marry as Banks, can find no marriage for Jenkinson / Banks / Bastin either for Eliza Louisa. like mother like daughter
like wise Mary Ellen has invented a father, nothing new there.

A copy of Mary Banks marriage should give you a father.

Hope you are able to understand my research, would like to hear your opinions and any one elses

Mavis

Hi, I am the relative who gave Trudi this information. Ada Constance Bastin was born 14.01.1874 to Eliza Louise (formerly Banks) and Henry Bastin, gentleman at 21 Lovell Road, Leeds.

Eliza Bastin died 07.08.1883 at 52 Samuel Street, Leeds aged 41, wife of Thomas Bastin, Attorney's Clerk. Death registered by M E Foster, sister present at death of 25 Buslingthorpe Yard. Leeds. I can't trace a birth for either Eliza or Henry nor a marriage.

Can anyone help with further information please?

rootgatherer,
I will pass this info on to Ada's relative I am sure she will be pleased. I must close as I am up for work at 5.15. Please feel free to keep searching for me I am truly grateful.
Trudi

This is the only census i can see Eliza on (from ancestry.co.uk but also 1881 English census free to search at www.familysearch.org)

Name: Eliza L. Bastin
Age: 38
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Relation: Wife (Head) (Head)
Gender: Female
Where born: Leeds, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Leeds
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address: 52 Samuel St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Leeds
Sub-registration district: West Leeds
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Eliza L. Bastin 38
Ada C. Bastin 7
Margaret A. Gibbs 21 Servant
Martha Crosfield 13 servant
Florence Gibbs



I don't see a marriage on FreeBMD for this Eliza.

The child's birth certificate would perhaps give her father.(reference from freebmd)


Births Mar 1874 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bastin Ada Constance Leeds 9b 518

rootgatherer,
Thanks I had tried to research this. I have been in touch with a relation who told me Mary had a sister Eliza Banks. She believes she married a henry or thomas Bastin. They had a daughter Ada who was her gt grandmother. She was unable to give me any other info. Can you tell me how you manage to find all this out? Many thanks for everything you have found out.
Trudi

rootgatherer,
Mary Ellen Banks father was William Banks and his occupation was an engraver.

Sorry realise you had given her father.

There is this one with father William but ancestry acting up and I can't see the original to check his occpation.

Name: Mary Banks
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Female
Where born: Selby, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Selby
Ecclesiastical parish: York
Town: Selby
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Selby
Sub-registration district: Selby
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 86
Household Members: Name Age
William Banks 56
Mary Banks 44
James Banks 18
William Banks 16
Henry Banks 12
Mary Banks 10
John Banks 8
Francis Banks 6
Elizabeth Banks 3
Emma Berry 35
Dinah Gibson 18
Mary Raper 17
Mark Weatherill 23
John Morritt 18
George Drabbs 15
Thomas Moore 14
John Banks 21
John Weldrake 47
Frickley T Wilkinson 60

Mary Ellen gives her place of birth as Leeds on all the census after she married. I can only see a Mary Ellen born in the correct year but wrong place of birth - Bradford - and no sister Eliza.

What was Mary Ellen's father's name and occupation on her marriage certificate please?

Young Alfred's marriage

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Jun 1899 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Foster Alfred Louie J Tadcaster 9c 1545
Stelling Elizabath Tadcaster 9c 1545



1901 Census

Name: Alfred L J Foster
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Leeds, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Roundhay
Ecclesiastical parish: Roundhay St John
Town: Roundhay
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Leeds
Sub-registration district: Chapeltown
ED, institution, or vessel: 32
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 196
Household Members: Name Age
Alfred L J Foster 28
Elizabeth Foster 21
Alfred Foster 1 month

1911 Census

HOUSEHOLD FOSTER ALFRED M 1901 10 Wharfedale Yorkshire West Riding
HOUSEHOLD FOSTER ALFRED LOUIE JOHN M 1873 38 Wharfedale Yorkshire West Riding
HOUSEHOLD FOSTER ELIZABETH F 1879 32 Wharfedale Yorkshire West Riding
HOUSEHOLD FOSTER ETHEL F 1903 8 Wharfedale Yorkshire West Riding

rootgatherer
This could be them. Alfred Fredrick Foster was my gt gt grandfather. I know his father was Samuel Foster and his mother was Martha Bell Robinson. Thank you for filling in some gaps. It is his wifes family I am trying to trace. Mary Ellen Banks. Could you help?
Trudi