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Further to all the above I ordered the birth and death certs for Norman Liscombe French and I believe that the 1911 census record is for my grandfather so thanks for the help.
When I relayed this news to my Mum's one surviving brother he was astonished as there had never been any mention of this child though he did recall his Mum telling him that he shouldn't have been called Eric as the name was intended for his older brother. My grandfather was sent to register the child as Eric French but returned with a certificate naming him Norman, when my Gran asked him why he said "Because he looks like a Norman and that's the end of it"

Hi Jean

I cant find a birth record anywhere in Eng/Wales for a 'Jimmie' or 'Jemmie' French, although there is a birth for a James

Name: James French
Year of Registration: 1898
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Newcastle Upon Tyne
County: Northumberland, Tyne and Wear
Volume: 10b
Page: 98 (click to see others on page)


Do the references on the record you have match up with the ones above?

I also still cant find James on the 1901 census although Ellen is on there with son John H.

Check out that 1911 census as Ellen cant be 'James/Jemmie' mom she's too young and the Ellen that was with her husband James would have been 69ish in 1911, so I dont think Norman was her son!



Ginny

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Hi Choccy

I think I will send for the cert for that one the 1911 form says born in Newcastle but there is also a death for a Norman L French in 1911 at less than i year old so that would explain why we knew nothing about it.

thanks again

Jean

I found this - ?

Births Dec 1910 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FRENCH Norman L Sunderland 10a 673

Hi Choccy

It is left blank and where it should say married/single/widowed there is a scrawl that appears to start with an S. So she may have just called herself French.
Also the son Norman aged 6 months doesn't seem to come up on Birth registers either.

She signed my Grandfathers birth cert with a X and , looking at the 1911 form, I suspect her 12 year old son filled it in.

Jean

The women Ellen on the 1911 census cant be the Ellen who was married to James ie James/Jemmie/Jimmie's mom as she's far too young?


She is on the 1901 age 59 with her son John H. So Jemmie or whatever he was called is still not around?

A mystery!!

Ginny
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Jean, how long does it say Ellen has been married on the 1911 census?

I found them on Ancestry eventually Jean. Definitely lots of info about his

squint! Doesn't help though does it!

Hi Choccy

I'm glad I printed them out because I cant find them now either ! It is definitely him though as there is loads of stuff about his squint !

Thanks very much

Jean

Jean

am going to delete my ramblings - they are obviously wrong!

I'm not finding the records you mention though.

He was a private and his army number on discharge was 597010. Though I have a medal record which also gives 40943.

Thanks

Jean

Hi Choccy

The army record I found only lists his next of kin as Ellen French formerly Ramsey but doesn't mention Henry. It gives his discharge address as 6 Northcote Avenue which is where he lived when he married my Nan there are several James Fenches on the Army records. Is that a different one ? the Ramsey coincidence does seem odd. Was it under Pension Records ?

Thanks


Jean

Thanks so much

I think the 1911 may be them I have just looked at the actual sheet and the boys name is actually Jimmie. I had no idea he ever had a brother but he called one of his sons Norman.

Thanks again

Jean

Now I did see a little French as a border on his own..somewhere!

1901 England Census
about John H French
Name: John H French
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Ellen
Gender: Male
Where born: Scetswood, Northumberland, England

Civil parish: Sunderland
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
County/Island: Durham
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Sunderland
Sub-registration district: North Bishopwearmouth
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 264
Household Members: Name Age
Ellen French 59
John H French 27


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could this be Ellen in 1911 with James (Jemmie) ?

HOUSEHOLD FRENCH ELLEN F 1884 27 Newcastle upon Tyne Northumberland
HOUSEHOLD FRENCH NORMAN M 1910 6 MONTHS Newcastle upon Tyne Northumberland
HOUSEHOLD FRENCH JEMMIE M 1899 12 Newcastle upon Tyne Northumberland

His father is listed as Sailer Merchant Service

Thanks

Jean

Is it more likely that James and Ellen were his grandparents. Ellen seems a little old to have child in 1898?

Jill

There's a chap missing from this list ...

Marriages Mar 1894 (>99%)
Craik Sarah Jane Newcastle T. 10b 165 Scan available - click to view
Keys William Henry Newcastle T. 10b 165 Scan available - click to view
Learmouth Francis Newcastle T. 10b 165 Scan available - click to view
Ramsey Ellen Newcastle T. 10b 165 Scan available - click to view
Senior Thomas Newcastle T. 10b 165 Scan available - click to view

Getting there

1891 England Census
about James French
Name: James French
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ellen
Gender: Male
Where born: Allendale, Northumberland, England

Civil parish: Bishop Wearmouth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Luke
County/Island: Durham
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Sunderland
Sub-registration district: North Bishop Wearmouth
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
James French 60
Ellen French 51
John Henry French 17

Edit; Father Commission Agent

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here in 81
1881 England Census
about James French
Name: James French
Age: 51
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1830
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ellen
Gender: Male
Where born: Allendale, Northumberland, England

Civil parish: Bishopwearmouth
County/Island: Durham
Country: England

Street Address: 5 Holly Terr
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Cashier & Bookkeeper In Glass Bottle House (Clerk)

Registration district: Sunderland
Sub-registration district: North Bishop Wearmouth
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
James French 51
Ellen French 43
John H. French 7
Annie Charlton 19


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