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Eliza Harfferd 1881 Newton Abbot Devon

James Swift 1881 Newton Abbot Devon

1891??

Name: James Swift
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James
Mother's Name: Eliza
Gender: Male
Where born: Ramsgate, Kent, England

Civil Parish: St Philip and St Jacob
Ecclesiastical parish: St Jude
Town: Bristol
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Barton Regis
Sub registration district: St Philip
ED, institution, or vessel: 28
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Swift 9/12
Eliza Swift 31
Ellen Swift 9
James Swift 33
James Swift 6

Has James snr born norfolk norwich, Eliza looks like middlsex Branford daughter Ellen Norwich

Your Swifts were in Bristol in 1891. Here is a possibly interesting John Smith that year:


Name: John Smith
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Clifford, Dorset, England
(It looks like Chilford, and could mean Chilfrome?)

Civil Parish: St Philip and St Jacob
Ecclesiastical parish: St Luke
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Occupation: Railway Porter
Condition as to marriage: Unmarried
Registration district: Barton Regis
Sub registration district: St Philip
ED, institution, or vessel: 35

Btw, no Mary Smith birth was registered in Poole 1881-1885.

So this is James in 1901:

Name: James Swift
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Norwich
Occupation: General Labourer
(Others in the household list are dealers/hawkers)

Civil Parish: Liskeard
Ecclesiastical parish: Liskeard St Martin
Town: Liskeard
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England


I have family from the Plymouth / Liskeard area (one household, lived both places) -- those bits of Cornwall and Devon are closely connected in terms of population movement/settlement.

The information is useful for knowing where to look for Mary, i.e. how they might have bumped into each other.

Jmaes was a general Hawker on the marriage certificate. He was born in 1884 in Margate. His parents are James Swift born 1858 great yarmouth. He married Eliza Harferred (Harford) in 1881 in Torquay. Neither appear in the1881 census. Ellen one of the witnesses was born in 1882 in Norwich. They appear in Bristol in 1991. Some of the family were in Plymouth in 1901. His father James was in Plymouth jail and Ithink James Swift jr that married Mary Smith was in Cornwall I think. Mary being born in Poole is only what ive been told by members of the family.

Can you give us James's mother's and sister's names? I also haven't picked up on whether you have him sorted out, e.g. where he was in 1901.

Also James's occupation on the marriage certificate. Was he in the military?

The "servant" Mary was in 1901, not 1891, recall. (In 1891 she was 8-ish).

I think the 1901 "servant" Mary is very probably the daughter of Amy Stoner and Thomas Smith, with Amy in 1891. Thomas Smith in 1881 may be the one from London who is a "patient" in Bognor, Sussex, in 1891, which would explain why Amy is a housekeeper (or ...) with her children in 1891. It could also be an explanation for that Mary not knowing her father's name.

What I have not picked up -- why do you think they were from Poole / Dorset?

Its a possibility. I did think the 1891 census servant sounded a possibility but we seem to be getting away from the lead I had that she was from Poole. I wonder if they were travellers and never got on the census.

This could be that Amy, in 1881:


Name: Amy Smith
[Amy Stoner]
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863
Relation: Daughter
Spouse's Name: Thomas Smith - occupation Carter
Father's Name: Thomas Stoner
Mother's Name: Mary Ann Stoner
Gender: Female
Where born: Tillington, Sussex, England
Civil Parish: Hove
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England
Street address: 69 Livingstone Road
Condition as to marriage: Married


There are always theories possible.

If that Mary Smith was the daughter of Thomas Smith and Amy Stoner, but they separated early and Mary never knew her father, she could have invented "John Smith" for her marriage purposes. Or your Mary's mother simply wasn't married, and Smith was the mother's name. Invented fathers are hardly uncommon, lol.

No trace of Mary J G Smith in 1901 that I can see.

A shepherd really is a far cry from a hawker, though.


I wonder whether the servant Mary in 1901 --

Name: Mary Smith
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Sussex, England

-- is this one in 1891:

Name: Mary A Smith
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation: Housekeeper's Daughter
Gender: Female
Where born: West Brighton, Sussex, England
Civil Parish: Hove
Ecclesiastical parish: St Barnabas
Town: Hove
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England
Registration district: Steyning
Sub registration district: Shoreham
ED, institution, or vessel: 17

Household Members:
Name Age
William C Attwater 36 - general labourer
Mary Botting 76
William Brooks 23
Amy Smith 28
Emma Smith 7
Mary A Smith 9
William C Smith 11/12

and whether Amy (it could possibly say Anny) Smith was really married ... General labourers didn't commonly have housekeepers with a bunch of kids to support. ;)

James Swift was a general hawker on the marriage certificate and the witnesses were his mother and sister.
I like the servant census details. Is Mary still in North Wotton in 1901?

This is the only likely-looking Mary in Dorset in 1891:


Name: Mary J G Smith
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John
Gender: Female
Where born: North Wootton, Dorset, England

Civil Parish: Oborne
Ecclesiastical parish: Oborne
Town: Sandford Orcas
County/Island: Dorset
Country: England
Registration district: Sherborne
Sub registration district: Bradford Abbas
ED, institution, or vessel: 6

Household Members:
Name Age
Agusta Smith 33
Anne E Smith 24
Edward J Smith 32
Elsie H A Smith 6
Florence H Smith 11
John Smith 36
Mary J G Smith 9


But that John was a shepherd. And I would have expected she would use her initials when she married.

do the witness names help at all ,are they her family?

Do you know anything about James Swift -- age at marriage and father, from the marriage certificate, and anything else?

I do not see him in the 1901 in Devon. Since the marriage was in Plymouth, there may be a good chance he was in the military and from elsewhere himself.


This Mary Smith in 1901 could be one possibility.


Name: Mary Smith
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Sussex, England

Civil Parish: Devonport St John
Ecclesiastical parish: Devonport St Aubyn
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

No because you need credits but Mary should be on the 1891 if she was born in 1884??

Dont have any info on John Smith. Do you have access to 1891 census?

How old was John Smith when he married

Perhaps someone will be kind enough to do a census look up for Mary on the 1891 unless you already have this one?

Mary was a 19 years old spinster, married 12 sept 1903. John Smith (deceased) was a hawker.