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Very sorry Sylvia,
I was up till 3 a.m went to bed with it on my mind hardly slept and today didn't realise what I was asking again till too late by then other people were kindly giving help aswell.
Once again sorry and thank you and everyone else for their help.

this is the second thread on Arthur James Smith and father James Arthur or Arthur James


............. much of the same information was found on the other thread!!

Including much of the last census information that Glitter found!




My similar findings were dismissed as unlikely!!



sylvia

Thank you so much for all your help, there is a lot for me to go on, thank you all again.

Fingers crossed it is right one.

Maureen

Well done Glitter,should have thought about him changing his name round ;-)

1871
Name: Arthur J Smith
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Arthur J
Mother's Name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: London, England
Civil Parish: Islington St Peter
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
Town: London
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Islington
Sub registration district: Islington East
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 144
Household Members: Name Age
Edmund Moore 63 father-in-law, Worcestershire
Arthur J Smith 35
Arthur J Smith 13
Fredk Smith 3
Louisa Smith 9
Sarah Smith 33 Birmingham
Sarah M Smith 11

Guess what the occupation of the father is - yes artificial florist



Class: RG10; Piece: 278; Folio: 14; Page: 22; GSU roll: 824920



1861?

Name: Arthur J Smith
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: St Pancras
Ecclesiastical parish: St Jude
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation: artificial florist

Condition as to marriage: View Image

Registration district: Pancras
Sub registration district: Grays Inn Lane
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 52
Household Members: Name Age
Arthur J Smith 25
Arthur J Smith 3
Emely Smith 13 sister, Clerkenwell
Sarah Smith 24 Birmingham
Sarah Smith 1

Class: RG9; Piece: 107; Folio: 6; Page: 8; GSU roll: 542574.



Possible marriage
Marriages Mar 1857 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Griffiths Maria E London 1c 63
Moore Sarah C London 1c 63
Rowley Robert Francis E London 1c 63
Sims Arthur George E London 1c 63
Smith Arthur James E London 1c 63



1851 poss
Name: Arthur Jas Smith
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James Welln
Mother's Name: Frances
Gender: Male
Where born: Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Clerkenwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St Philip
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Clerkenwell
Sub registration district: Amwell
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 229
Household Members: Name Age
Arthur Jas Smith 15
Emily S Smith 3
Frances Smith 45
Frederich Smith 12
Henry J W Smith 17
James Welln Smith 50
Walter Smith 17

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1517; Folio: 126; Page: 48; GSU roll: 87851.

Occupation of Arthur is not clear but could be ??? flower



1881 poss
Name: Arthur Smith
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Clerkenwell

Civil Parish: Clerkenwell
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address: 8 1/2 William St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Artificial Florist

Registration district: Holborn
Sub registration district: Amwell
ED, institution, or vessel: 4a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Arthur Smith 45
Emily Smith 33
Frederick Smith 13
Louisa Smith 19
Sarah Smith 44 Birmingham



1881 poss
Name: Arthur Jos. Smith
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: (City)

Civil Parish: Shoreditch
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address: 11 Baising Place
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Cabinet Maker

Registration district: Shoreditch
Sub registration district: St Leonard
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Edwin Durnford 42
Jane Durnford 50
Arthur Jos. Smith 21

I'm so slow, I have just seen what you asked.

Arthur James Smith is down on the marriage certificate as CABINET MAKER.

The marriage of Arthur to Alice Rainbird is correct as I have the certificate, thank you all for your help I'm going to study it after tea now as my household is hungry so will have to shut down but I will be back later.

once again thank you

Unless James Arthur was married before.

Also struggling to find another one that fits with the occupation of artifical florist

What is the occupation of Arthur James Smith from the 1884 marriage cert?

Strange their are no other James smith's who are artifical florists.................

Not really looking like the right family at the moment

1871 England Census
about Ellen S Hurrell
Name: Ellen S Hurrell
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William R
Mother's Name: Ellen R
Gender: Female
Where born: St Luke, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St Luke
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Holborn
Sub registration district: Old Street
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 27
Household Members: Name Age
Ellen R Hurrell 40
Ellen S Hurrell 18
Kate L Hurrell 17
William R Hurrell 40

Births Dec 1852
Hurrell Ellen Stanley St Luke 1b 509

Deaths Jun 1896
Smith Ellen Stanley 44 Islington 1b 225

1891 address 119 Bridfort Place,Shoreditch.
James smith head artifical florist
Ellen smith wife
Kate L smith daughter
Louisa daughter
William son
Ellen Hurrell mother in law

Just wondering about this marriage

Marriages Dec 1875 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Buckley Louisa Holborn 1b 1163
Hurrell Ellen Stanley Holborn 1b 1163
MELLIS Joseph Holborn 1b 1163
SMITH James Arthur Holborn 1b 1163

He was a widower in 1901.

Kathryn, have you checked him out on 1881 census which is free to search on Ancestry or on http://www.familysearch.org/

1881 there is one

Name: Jas. A. Smith
Age: 43
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ellen S.
Gender: Male
Where born: St Pancras, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: St Marys Islington
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address: 108 Packington St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Artificial Florist

Registration district: Islington
Sub registration district: Islington East
ED, institution, or vessel: 55a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Henrietta Huxtable 27
Ellen Murray 17
Ellen S. Smith 38
Jas. A. Smith 43
Katie Smith 4
Louisa Smith 3 Newington
Wm. Smith 1


Could match the 1901