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Hi
I'm trying to find siblings of my great grandfather Albert James Frances. I have the family listed on census return RG12/3551 page 30 with brothers listed as James, Charles, Christopher and John in the Saddleworth area. I've tried searching bmd for further info on the brothers but having no luck, I've tried searching on both Francis and Frances.
Can anyone advise me of what to try next?
Thanks

Jo

Some dates could help, please?

could this be Christopher?

Births Sep 1882 (>99%)
Francis Christopher George Saddleworth 9a 262

possibly them in 1891:-

Name: Albert J Francis
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Arthur Wm
Mother's Name: Elizth E
Gender: Male
Where born: Long Buckby, Northamptonshire, England

Civil Parish: Saddleworth
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
Town: Dob Cross
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Registration district: Saddleworth
Sub registration district: Upper Mill
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Albert J Francis 10 born: Long Buckby, Northamptonshire
Arthur Wm Francis 33 born: Buckhorn Weston, Dorset
Charles E W Francis 10 born: Upway, Dorset
Christopher G Francis 8 born: Saddleworth
Elizth E Francis 38 born: Great Tollor, Dorset
James W Francis 12 born: Salford, Lancashire
John W Francis 2 born: Saddleworth

possible birth for Albert:-

Births Dec 1880 (>99%)
FRANCES Albert James Daventry 3b 117

possibly Albert in 1901:-

Name: Albert James Francis
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Northampton

Civil Parish: Dawdon
Ecclesiastical parish: Seaham Harbour St John
Town: Seaham Harbour
County/Island: Durham
Country: England

Occupation:? Driver on New Railway

Registration district: Easington
Sub registration district: Dawdon
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 194
Household Members:
Name Age
Albert James Francis 20
Charlotte Francis 20
Catherine Newman 45
Ellen Newman 6
Robert Newman 49

Thanks for helping me Catherine,

That's certainly info on Albert, my great grandfather - it's his brothers I need info for and their descendants. I would imagine that would be his brother Christopher you've entered for 1882, that's the estimate I had for him being born.
How do I find info on the brothers and their children?

Jo

hello Jo,
Had some shopping to do.
I've been trying to find the other members of the family in the 1901 census but not much luck yet.

Finally think I found the others in 1901:-

Christopher Francis abt 1882 Greenfield, Yorkshire, England Son Marple, Derbyshire
Eleanor Francis abt 1892 Dob Cross, Yorkshire, England Daughter Marple, Derbyshire
Ellen Francis abt 1854 Frampton, Dorset, England Wife Marple, Derbyshire
John Wm Francis abt 1888 Dob Cross, Yorkshire, England Son Marple, Derbyshire
William Francis abt 1857 Buckhorn Weston, Dorset, England Head Marple, Derbyshire
(Navvy)

So looks like Elizabeth's other name is Ellen.
There's also a daughter Eleanor.



possible birth for Arthur William (father):-

Births Sep 1857 (96%)
Frances Arthur William Albert Wincanton 5c 524


marriage for Albert:-
Marriages Mar 1901 (>99%)
FRANCES Albert James Easington 10a 586
BIRCHENO Charlotte Easington 10a 586
BRICHENO Charlotte Easington 10a 586

Hi Catherine

That's the problem I've been having - it's like they've disappeared!

I desperately want to find out more as I've just been contacted by what turns out to be my Dad's cousins family - we didn't even know he existed!

Apparently my great aunt Emily went to have him in London in 1930 as she was unwed, no one here knew about it. He has retained the family name of Frances so we don't think he was formally adopted and I was hoping some of our other Frances family members may have took him in and kept it from my great grandfather.

The thing is I'm drawing a blank on the brothers so can't seem to get any further!

The only other connections to London that I have are my great uncle Christopher who was born there in 1914 but he died of polio in 1917 so no link there, and a possible sister of Arthur William Frances (1858) called Caroline who was born in 1869 in Notting Hill - this isn't a confirmed sister though so still non the wiser!

As much as it's fantastic locating what you want, its frustrating hitting a brick wall!

Thanks for your interest and help though... makes me feel I'm not alone :)

Jo

Possible marriage for Charles?
Charles Frances married Elsie Jones 1917 Jun Q Saddleworth and son born 1919 Sep Q Saddleworth Charles A Frances mothers maiden surname Jones

There is also a marriage for a John Wiliam Frances in 1908 BUT it is in Birkenhead Cheshire AND he was registered at birth as John Willie Frances 1889 Mar Q Saddleworth

How on earth do you find these things?!!

I have Charles having the initials EW as middle names and not A - would this be right? I've also just come across a marriage in Daventry 3b 221 in 1910 for John W but don't know where to view this page?

How do you find out children of these brothers?

It's all questions! :) much appreciated answers though

Jo

I've just viewed the page on Ancestry - marriage to an Annie J Nown? How do I know which marriage is the right one!
and how do you search forward to find any children!!

I need chocolate!

Jo

Joanne
It is the SON who is Charles A Frances born 1919 after the marriage of your Charles to Elsie Jones. And yes he (the father) is shown as Charles E W in one of the censuses but I cant find a birth registration with those initials or names to fit. Often the additional names were given at baptism which was often quite a bit later than registration which has to be done within 6 weeks of birth.
As to how you find children -you first find a marriage which will give you (after 1911)wifes maiden name.
Then you just search for child with fathers surname aand mothers maiden name in the appropriate area.

How do you know which marriage is the right one for John Willie ? Well you could shell out £7 each for the certs and see which one has the right father (if any) or you could just wait for the 1911 census -only 2 years to go!

thanks Gillian - I'm reading it correctly now!

As you've probably read in my thread I'm trying to find any connection to any Frances family in London who may have taken in a child in 1930. Any ideas on how to progress?!

Jo

If the Birkenhead marriage is correct then here is the reference:-
Marriages Jun 1908 (>99%)
Frances John William Birkenhead 8a 1001
MUTCH Mary Eliza Birkenhead 8a 1001

births that would fit this marriage:-
Births Dec 1912 (>99%)
Frances George (Mutch) Birkenhead 8a 858
Births Jun 1915 (>99%)
Frances John (Mutch) Birkenhead 8a 833

On the same page as John William there is also a record for a Eleanor Frances. If it is his sister it would mean that she was only 16yrs old but, you never know:-

Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1908
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
FRANCES Eleanor Emily HUCKLE Thomas Edward Birkenhead, St Peter Wirral BK10/2/315
FRANCES John William MUTCH Mary Eliza Birkenhead, St Peter Wirral BK10/2/329

Many thanks again for the info - I continue to be amazed at how you find these things... logging off for this evening now.

I'm visiting my great aunt in the morning to see if she can shed some light on what actually happened back in 1930. Apparently only her and her mother knew about the pregnancy. Fingers crossed I can get some more info!

Will let you know - thanks again, to both of you for your help.

Jo

Spoken to my great aunt but non the wiser on what happened - she was told her mother befriended a family in London and they took her sister in when she was pregnant, she said she couldn't rule out it being a Frances family member but that's all she was told. apparently they went to London quite frequently as her Dad helped in constructing many of the London underground stations. It wouldn't surprise me if there were brothers, uncles etc involved too...

So.... I'm back searching again! the only info I have to go on is an Uncle Len and an Aunt Sissy! No surnames or locations - this is gonna be a long search!

Jo