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And here she is in 1861 before she married William., with her parents and brothers

Mary Ann Lucy Leary
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Mary Ann
Gender: Female
Where born: Portsmouth, Hampshire, England

Civil Parish: Portsea
Town: Portsea
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View Image

Registration district: Portsea Island
Sub-registration district: Landport
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 47
Household Members: Name Age
Edwin George Leary 8
John Leary 53
Joseph Leary 10
Mary Ann Leary 43
Mary Ann Lucy Leary 14
William Leary 16


Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 640; Folio: 198; Page: 7; GSU roll: 542676.



Nicky

Heres Mary Ann in 1871....living with her parents and 3 children......still no sign of William


Mary A L Matthews
[Mary A L Leary]
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Mary A
Gender: Female
Where born: Portsea, Hampshire, England
Civil Parish: Portsea
Ecclesiastical parish: Kingston St Mary and Portsea
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Portsea Island
Sub-registration district: Landport
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Household schedule number: 280
Household Members: Name Age
John Bates 61
John Leary 62
Joseph Leary 20
Mary A Leary 53
Ellen Matthews 5 months
George E Matthews 2
Mary A Matthews 6
Mary A L Matthews 24


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Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 1140; Folio: 25; Page: 44; GSU roll: 827784.

Her father John is a Pensioner Royal Navy.



Nicky

Sorry that was 1881 not 1871...here it is again but with all the occupations and relationships.

Harry HUGHES
Head M Male 40 Portsmth, Hampshire, England Teacher Of Music & Etc
Emily HUGHES Wife M Female 37 Isle of Wight, Hampshire, England Teachers Wife
Percy Jas. HUGHES Son Male 8 Portsmth, Hampshire, England Scholar
Lily Caroline HUGHES Daur Female 5 Portsmth, Hampshire, England Scholar
Ada Florence C. HUGHES Daur Female 3 Portsmth, Hampshire, England
Harry Blyth HUGHES Son Male 6 m Portsmth, Hampshire, England
Louisa WHITTINGTON Sister In Law U Female 35 Isle of Wight, Hampshire, England Dressmaker
Mary Ann MATTHEWS Sister In Law M Female 33 Southsea, Hampshire, England Drapers Wife


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Source Information:
Dwelling 29 Emmanuel Street
Census Place Portsea, Hampshire, England
Family History Library Film 1341279
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 1141 / 136
Page Number 48


Nicky

really need to know more about William Matthews:
this is all I have.
Marriages Dec 1863
Leary Mary Ann Lucy Portsea Island 2b 791
Matthews William George Portsea 2b 791

Can we find them in 1861 / 1881 at all?

Ive got to go shortly, but will 'catch' you up with the bigger picture next time
thanks again
Gill

Yep - Emmanual Street.....

you gave me this earlier:
Thomas and mary Ann in 1891
Thomas Riddell ( Piddell)
Age: 69 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1822
Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Mary Ann
Where born: Portsmouth, Hampshire, England
Civil Parish: Portsea Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints Town: Portsmouth : Hampshire

Household Members: Name Age
Edith Ellard 16
Mary Ann Riddell 68
Thomas Riddell 69
James Robertson 29
Address is 48 Emanuel Street...the other 2 people listed are a boarder and a servant.


and at 29 Emmanual Street: in 1871 - 20yrs earlier:
Mary Ann Matthews
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Sister in Law
Gender: Female
Where born: Southsea, Hampshire, England

Civil Parish: Portsea
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England

Street address: 29 Emmanuel Street
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Drapers Wife

Registration district: Portsea Island
Sub-registration district: Kingston
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age

Ada Florence C. Hughes 3
Emily Hughes 37
Harry Hughes 40
Harry Blyth Hughes
Lily Caroline Hughes 5
Percy Jas. Hughes 8
Mary Ann Matthews 33
Louisa Whittington 35

not sure what it all means?

ok Nicky - thanks for your help.
Just so that you know - this is a part of a bigger puzzle - so will appreciate your help later or tomorrow
Gill

Theres this one in 1871....age and P of B fits but no sign of husband William.


Mary Ann Matthews
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Sister in Law
Gender: Female
Where born: Southsea, Hampshire, England

Civil Parish: Portsea
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England

Street address: 29 Emmanuel Street
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Drapers Wife

Registration district: Portsea Island
Sub-registration district: Kingston
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age

Ada Florence C. Hughes 3
Emily Hughes 37
Harry Hughes 40
Harry Blyth Hughes
Lily Caroline Hughes 5
Percy Jas. Hughes 8
Mary Ann Matthews 33
Louisa Whittington 35


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Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 1141; Folio: 136; Page: 48; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341279.



Nicky

Got to go now.....but will be back later if you still need help..look back at the census info I posted last night....Emmanuel Street rings a bell....

Forget the above one can`t be her ...heres her birth reg.


Births Jun 1847 (>99%)
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Leary Mary Ann Lucy Portsea 7 159



Nicky

Have been looking in the 1871 census ....but there are so many Mary Ann Matthews about the same age born in Hampshire area, that you can`t be sure which one is her without more information....if you get the marriage cert. it will give you fathers name and occupation which means you may be able to trace her through from earlier censuss. I did find 1 William and Mary Matthews in 1881....there all listed as travellers, don`t know if these are yours or not......


Mary Ann Matthews
Age: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1842
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Willm.
Gender: Female
Where born: Sussex, England

Civil Parish: Farnborough
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England

Street address: In Caravan Gravel Rd
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Travellers

Registration district: Hartley Wintney
Sub-registration district: Farnborough
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Annie Matthews 14
Bill Matthews 6
James Matthews 4
Jane Matthews 8
Job Matthews 2
John Matthews
Lydia Matthews 11
Mary Ann Matthews 39
Pheobe Matthews 17
Willm. Matthews 39


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Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 1251; Folio: 74; Page: 65; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341306.

They beat me too it..... a year before the daughters birth ....pretty sure that will be them....but you need certs to confirm..


Nicky

Hi
someone has very kindly found this for me:

Marriages Dec 1863
Leary Mary Ann Lucy Portsea Island 2b 791
Matthews William George Portsea 2b 791

I now need to find out more about these two: I know they had a daughter the year after they married in 1864 - I would like to find them in 1871 census if pos.

I think the Mathewws connection is actually from Thomas 2nd wife Mary Ann...... the child is registered in Portsea Mary Ann Leary Matthews....Leary is Mary Ann {thomas wife} maiden name.....so if you can find a Mathewws /Leary Marriage pre 1864 that will probably be the parents, but only their marriage cert and Mary Ann {their daughters} birth cert. will confirm this. So from what I have found there appears to be no blood tie between Piddell and Matthews, just that Thomass wifes daughter married a Matthews. Hope this make sense.

Nicky

Hi Nicky

1st query:
ref: Ellen Piddell & James Matthews marriage March 1858-

Prior to you coming up with the above marriage, I had already got this info:
Marriage: Ellen Maria Piddell to Charles White Robertson Stagg. 25 JAN 1858 Saint Anne Soho, Westminster, London, England

1861 England Census
Name: Ellen Maria Stagg Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Charles W R
Where born: Brighton, Sussex, England
Civil Parish: Newington
Ecclesiastical parish: Trinity
County/Island: Surrey
Street address: 181 Great Dover St
Registration district: Newington

Household Members: Name Age
Charles W R Stagg 37 - engineering surveyor
Ellen Maria Stagg 22
Charles R Stagg 1

1871 England Census (living with her mum,Sarah)
Name: Ellen Stagg [Ellen Piddsel]
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Sarah
Gender: Female
Where born: Brighton, Sussex, England

Civil Parish: St James Clerkenwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St Phillip
County/Island: London

Street address: 48 St Helena Pl
Occupation: Envelope maker

Registration district: Holborn
Sub-registration district: Amwell
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household schedule number: 417

Household Members: Name Age
Sarah Piddsel 74 [Piddell on image, but is a bit faint.]
Ellen Stagg 32
Charles Stagg 11 - Southwark
Henry Stagg 6 - Marylebone

Now, I am not sure whether Ellen married Charles Stagg in Jan 1858 - or James Matthews in Mar 1858-
any thoughts??
Gill







Ellen had died in 1887:
Name: Ellen Maria Snoad
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Year of Registration: 1887 Quarter : Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 49
District: London City
County: Greater London, London, Middlesex
Volume: 1c Page: 20

Found this & know that there is the 'Matthews' connection - but not sure where just yet:
1881 census:
Thomas PIDDELL Head M Male 59 Portsm, Hampshire, England Pensioner RN
Mary Ann PIDDELL Wife M Female 56 Portsm, Hampshire, England Pensioner Wife

Mary Ann Leary MATTHEWS Grand Daur Female 16 Portsm, Hampshire, England

John BATES Widower Male 71 Ireland Musician
Source Information:
Dwelling 48 Emanuel Street
Census Place Portsea, Hampshire, England
Family History Library Film 1341279
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 1141 / 140 Page Number 56

Hi Nicky

I have only just picked up your replies to my thread - WOW - there is a lot to take in - thnak you so much!

I will try to take a good look now & reply later
thanks again
Gill

And finally Thomas and mary Ann in 1891....You can find Thomas death on freeBMD in 1897. I can not find him in 1841or 51.


Thomas Riddell
Age: 69
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1822
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Portsmouth, Hampshire, England

Civil Parish: Portsea
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
Town: Portsmouth
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Portsea Island
Sub-registration district: Kingston
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Edith Ellard 16
Mary Ann Riddell 68
Thomas Riddell 69
James Robertson 29
Address is 48 Emanuel Street...the other 2 people listed are a boarder and a servant.


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Nicky

And heres Fanny in 1861 with her mother at 81 lake Road, when Thomas was on board ship.


Fanny Piddell
Age: 43
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1818
Relation: Wife
Gender: Female
Where born: Woolwich, Kent, England

Civil Parish: Portsea
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View Image

Registration district: Portsea Island
Sub-registration district: Kingston
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 52
Household Members: Name Age
Charlotte Chandler 63
Edward Chandler 37
Charlotte Page 35
Fanny Piddell 43


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Nicky

And heres Thomas marriage to Fanny in 1853


Marriages Sep 1853 (>99%)
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BESANT Mary Ann Portsea 2b 594
CHANDLER Frances Portsea 2b 594
Piddell Thomas Portsea 2b 594
RAWLINGS William Portsea 2b 594



Nicky

Deaths Mar 1876 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Piddell Fanny 58 Portsea 2b 277

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Marriages Dec 1876 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PIDDELL Thomas Portsea 2b 865
Bride is Mary Ann Leary.



Nicky

Think Iv`e sorted it.....I got this from 1871 Census...pretty sure this must be your Thomas, occupation is Seaman Royal Navy......think this must be a previous marriage to Fanny/frances ...will go and look for a death and another marriage to Mary Ann.

Thomas Piddell
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relation: Son-in-law
Spouse's Name: Fanny
Gender: Male
Where born: Portsea, Hampshire, England
Civil Parish: Portsea
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Portsea Island
Sub-registration district: Kingston
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Household schedule number: 44
Household Members: Name Age
Charlotte Chandley 74
Nancy Colbron 72
Fanny Piddell 53
Thomas Piddell 50
Address is 81 Lake road

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Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 1129; Folio: 48; Page: 8; GSU roll: 827776.

Source Information:

Nicky

This is Mary Ann leary birth in Dec qtr 1864.....if you order the cert, it will confirm the parents.


MATTHEWS Mary Ann Leary Portsea 2b 438

Also the only Piddel/Matthews marriage I could find......


MARCH 1858
James Matthews Strand 1b 407
Ellen Maria Piddell Strand 1b 407


Nicky

UPDATE...From the info I have given you below it is probably more likely to be a Leary/Matthews marriage you are looking for.