Find Ancestors

Hi

Does anyone have a Frederick Sanders born 1853 to a Henry and Harriett Sanders in Birminmgham.

Frederick married a Elsie Matilda Herridge in Birmingham,they have 2 daughters, he isn't on any census from 1881, his wife is, so they must have parted.
I think he went to new Zealand, he died between 1891 and 1901.
but not in this country

Hope you can help

from Valerie Mucklow (nee Sanders

Elsie's probate in 1922 says she's a widow:


England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966 about Elsie Matilda Sanders
Name: Elsie Matilda Sanders
Probate Date: 16 Jan 1923
Death Date: 30 Dec 1922
Death Place: Hertfordshire, England
Registry: London, England

30 Lindsey Road, Bishops Stortford, Herts.
Probate to Elsie Eugenie Wendover,(wife of Harold George Newbury Wendover).
Effects: £485 13s. 3d

In 1881 she's listed as married, wife of a jeweller (leveller ??).
Can't see her after 1881 either.


1881 England Census about Elsie M. Sanders
Name: Elsie M. Sanders
[Elsie M. Herridge]
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1858
Relationship to Head: Daughter
Father: Henry Herridge
Gender: Female
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Civil Parish: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Street address: Livery St Albion Hotel
Marital Status: Married
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Wife Of A Jeweller
Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: All Saints
ED, institution, or vessel: 40
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3010
Folio: 71
Page Number: 19
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Herridge 58
Henry J. Herridge 27
Elsie M. Sanders 23
Catherine L. Herridge 21
Catherine E. Sanders 4
Elsie Sanders 2
Henry E.W. Muirhood 25
Samuel Fisher 23
John Sankey 33
James Jones 50
Sophia Pearman 28
Sarah James 24
Rose Griffiths 20
Ellen Futrill 20
Emma Bowen 24

Oh, yes, here she is in 1891, still listed as married, living on own means:


1891 England Census about Elsie M Saunders
Name: Elsie M Saunders
Age: 31
Estimated birth year: abt 1860
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Civil Parish: Bridgwater
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
Town: Bridgwater
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Bridgwater
Sub-registration district: Bridgwater
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1883
Folio: 13
Page Number: 20
Household Members:
Name Age
Elsie M Saunders 31
Catherine E Saunders 13
Elsie E Saunders 11

1901, now listed as widowed:

EDIT: Oops, just re-read Valerie's OP, and I see she already said Frederick died between 1891 and 1901.


1901 England Census about Elsie Saunders
Name: Elsie Saunders
Age: 41
Estimated birth year: abt 1860
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Civil Parish: Bridgewater
Ecclesiastical parish: Bridgewater Holy Trinity
Town: Bridgwater
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Bridgwater
Sub-registration district: Bridgwater
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2283
Folio: 21
Page Number: 33
Household schedule number: 222
Household Members:
Name Age
Elsie Saunders 41

Hello Valerie and welcome to the Community boards.



To see if anyone on this site has your relative in their tree, you need to click on Search All Members Trees - under the Search button above. If you find a connection, you can contact the tree owner for details.



Note: I'll let Valerie know that she has replies to her query :-)

same info supplied on other thread

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1339766

Partly my fault, Mike -
in response to a PM from Valerie, I advised her to add some mention of New Zealand to the title of her original thread, in hope of attracting the attention of someone there who might be able to find other info.

However, unfortunately she has started a new thread instead.

a big question is ... why New Zealand ?

if he emigrated he could have gone anywhere

also, relying on a person's statement of marital status in censuses is not always wise

someone may have thought they were still married when the spouse had in fact died ... or said they were widowed when the spouse was alive and well

Hi to you all

Thanks for all your help, apologies if I have got mixed up, I haven't found my around the boards properly yet.

I have noted your comments abt mistakes on censuses, over the years I have found quite a few things wrong which really throws you off the scent, and causes a lot of extra work.

The reason I thought New Zealand is that I have a photo of a man very nicely dressed taken in a studio in Auckland abt that time, and he looks a Sanders. the photo was in his sisters photo album, no names on any photos.

from Valerie

if you do a search at familysearch.org for

name Fred* Sanders
date of birth 1852-1855 (I just wanted to limit the search a little)
any event New Zealand

there are several passenger records for the name Fred/Fredk Sanders to New Zealand

1888
1892 Auckland (or other port)
1894 Wellington
1905 Wellington

knock out the 1892 one - occupation Boy
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KXC2-8QL

... ah, actually, I would bet many of them are the same person; occupations include Waiter and Steward on other records

that one may actually be in the 1911 English census - Fredrick Saunders transcribed by Ancestry as Frederick Launders - the waiter Fred also seems to appear as Saunders (and as initial F) in NZ immigration records - every trip he ever made is in those results I think!

Name: Frederick Launders
Age in 1911: 53
Estimated birth year: abt 1858
Relation to Head: Lodger
Gender: Male
Birth Place: New Zealand
Civil Parish: St Clement Danes and St Martin in the Fields
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: Bruce House, Registered Lodging House, Kemble Street, Drury Lane W C
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: COOK (shipping)


so the Fred S in all the NZ immigration records is pretty certainly not your man but unfortunately he clogs up any search you might do, so I thought it useful to mention him just to avoid tripping on him in future :-)


just one probably rude question ... but you're certain the Auckland on the photo is the one in NZ? :-D

Hi these message just comeup ,since I posted them I have found that the Frederick Sanders I am looking for went to N S W Australia,and died in 1895, he drowned in the Parramatta river aged abt 40 the coroners report is on the internet. an annomymous note was sent back here to his family re his death, He had disappeared earlier and no one in the family knew where he went. or why
Valerie exbrummie