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I think it is probably not Jane Bridge that Thomas married as this is that marriage and occupation is wrong - tho interesting that one of the witnesses is a Hannah Turner, but just be co-incidence, it is not exactly an uncommon name

Marriage: 5 Sep 1836 Collegiate, Manchester, Lancashire, England
Thomas Hopwood - Bleacher Bachelor of this Parish
Jane Bridge - (X), Widow of this Parish
Witness: George Needham; Hannah Turner, (X)
Married by Banns by: W.W. Johnson Dep. Chap.
Register: Marriages 1836, Page 741, Entry 2223
Source: LDS Film 1565410

edit - is it possible that a bleacher is someone involved in a specific process of hat making

From Barbara

"Thank you for your interest and response. There are many Hopwood hatters. I have found several when searching records in Manchester and Salford but I think we do have the right family listed in the 1841 census, Peter, Mary, Joseph and Sarah. It just seems too much of a coincidence for them all to be together. I do think it is likely Mary Hopwood died as on Joseph's convict papers of 1846/47 it lists Father - Peter, Sister - Sarah and there is a dash under mother. We only have Mary Turner written on the death certificate of Joseph in 1909. We are assuming that Turner is Mary's maiden name although we could be wrong.

Another family member has given me info from the 1851 census Peter Hopwood, 45 living at 20 Longshall Lane Stockport, head of the household apparently no Mary or Sarah but I do not know if there are others living in the household. By 1851 Joseph was in Tasmania and Sarah at age 24 would, in all probability, be married or moved away.

The Mary Hopwood who died in 1842 would seem a possibility - Mary was listed as 30 years of age in 1841 but she could have been 34 so that she would be 35 in 1842 - that's 3 year discrepancy but maybe they made a mistake. Are there any details with the lisiting for the death?"


on the assumption that Mary died between 1841 & 1845 is this a possible re-marriage for Peter

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1856
HOPWOOD Peter
OGDEN Nancy
Manchester Cathedral (formerly Manchester Collegiate Church)

Okay, Barbara, one more time and that's it! It is absolutely maddening having to drag info around from inbox to thread ...



Thank you for all this info re Thomas and Jane. I think you have it all right - I found a marriage for a Thomas and Jane and think it is the right one - Thomas Hopwood with Jane Bridge and then the christening for Alice in 1839. Those dates all add up. As we now have a birth year for Thomas - he was listed as 25 in 1841 census but that could have been rounded down. If he is listed as 59 years of age in 1871 it is likely he was 29 years in 1841 - so birth year should be 1812. His birth place is listed as Denton, Lancashire so would it be possible for me to obtain a birth certificate for him? Would this give me his parents names? Now I realise that he might be too early for birth certificates. I think your civil registrations started in 1837. Maybe that is why you are suggesting marriage certificate for Thomas and Jane. I have just looked up my IGI find for the marriage of Thomas and Jane Bridge and it took place on 5th September 1836 so would a marriage certificate be available for them?



Certificates are only available once civil registration started in mid-1837, and only if the event was registered, which many weren't for a couple of decades.

That's why I suggested the birth cert for Alice, if it could be found -- or one of those other children in the later censuses, if the birth can be identified (a bit problematic given the inconsistency in stated ages).

For finding the registration info:

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

For ordering certificates once you find it:

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

That would confirm the surname of Jane, Thomas's wife. If it was Bridge, and it was in 1836, then they had the extreme bad manners to marry exactly a year before civil registration started.

If another possible sibling could be identified, who was younger and married after 1837, that would be a possibility.

Keep an eye on FreeREG

http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl

There actually are quite a lot of ancient Lancashire Hopwood marriages and baptisms there now, but it will be a long slow process for the volunteer transcribers to get to you probably. If you are really eager, you can actually volunteer to transcribe records for the period/place that interests you!

Oh, and because I have no personal interest in Lancashire I never remember and don't know too much about, but lancashirebmd is a place to search.

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/

and great, that goes back to 1837 only.

A William Hopwood married a Mary Bridge at Manchester Cathedral, 1842. Sibs marrying sibs?

Others more versed in Lancs BMDs may be able to help more here.

I keep meaning to ask: your header says Peter Hopwood was born in Stockport. Where does that info come from? I don't think we confirmed or refuted it.


And please please reply - to everyone - in the thread and not by private message! You see that we are all just having to come to the thread and copy your messages here in order to make the info available and discuss it.

As I have had so many wonderful replies to my post I thought I should provide some more details of the family.

We do believe that the Peter Hopwood listed in 1841 census is "our Peter". It is just too much of a co-incidence that Mary, Joseph and Sarah are living with him. We have never had any information re Joseph's mother Mary, until we found her listed as Mary Turner on his death certificate. We understand that this would be her maiden name. Joseph was sentenced in Manchester in 1845 and was transported to Norfolk Island and then to Tasmania 1846/1847. He had two offences for stealing clothes. On his convict paper his father is listed as Peter and sister Sarah. There is a dash under mother. We have assumed that Mary either died before the 1851 census or left. We have not been able to find a marriage for Peter and Mary. We have not been able to find a birth for Joseph or Sarah. Joseph married Margaret Twohill, nee Coleman 1n 1853 and had two sons, John Richard and Joseph William - my husband is descended from Joseph William.

Until recently I did not know there were other Hopwoods listed at the same address on 1841 census. These are Thomas, Jane and Alice. I have since found a marriage for Thomas and Jane Bridge and a christening for Alice in 1839 at Manchester Cathedral. Unfortunately I do not know the relationship between Thomas and Peter.

The only other shred of evidence we have is in a letter written by Joseph, aged 77 - 80 years to his son Joseph he said he well remembers going down Deansgate to grandmother's house in Salford but again, we do not know if this was Mary's mother or Peter's mother.

We do have the family history of Joseph and his descendants in Australia and would be happy to share this information with any descendants of Peter and his family.
Barbara Hopwood, Adelaide

Alice Hopwood's christening:

ALICE HOPWOOD - Christening: 28 AUG 1839 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England

which could well be this birth

Births Sep 1839
Hopwood Alice Manchester 20 466

That certificate would give her mother's name, which could make it possible to find a marriage, e.g.

Marriages Mar 1839
BRIERLEY Ann Manchester 20 370
GREENHALGH John Manchester 20 370
? HOPWOOD Thomas Manchester 20 370
PRIESTNALL Elizabeth Manchester 20 370
RANSLEY William Manchester 20 370
? SCHOFIELD Jane Manchester 20 370
WARBURTON William Manchester 20 370
WARE Ellen Manchester 20 370

The marriage certificate would give the parties' fathers' names and occupations, at least if they reported them.

If you then worked on the assumption that Thomas and Peter were brothers, which is what seems likely, you would have something to investigate, anyway!


Thomas and Jane's household in 1861 in Manchester, at least I would think:

Thomas Hopwood 52 - labourer
Jane Hopwood 50
Sarah Hopwood 14
Samuel Hopwood 11


This must be Thomas in 1851 ...

Thomas Hopwood 29 - occupation Hatter, born Denton, married
Samuel Hopwood 4

Did you have this?


1871

Name: Thomas Hopwood
Age: 59
Estimated birth year: abt 1812
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Jane
Gender: Male
Where born: Denton, Lancashire, England

Name: Jane Hopwood
Age: 60
Estimated birth year: abt 1811
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Thomas
Gender: Female
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Name: Alice Hopwood
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1841
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Thomas
Mother's Name: Jane
Gender: Female
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Name: Katherine Hopwood
Age: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Relation: Granddaughter - of Thomas and Jane
Gender: Female
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: All Souls
County/Island: Lancashire
Registration district: Manchester

Thomas Hopwood 59
Jane Hopwood 60
Alice Hopwood 30
Katherine Hopwood 6

Barbara I'm going to beat you to it and copy your PM here because I have found a little something.


Thank you for your interest and response,

Joseph was sentenced in Manchester in 1845 and arrived in Norfolk Island/Tasmania 1846/47. You'll be pleased to know he worked his time as a timber cutter and was given a ticket of leave. He and his wife Margaret had two children, John Richard and Joseph William and my husband is descended from Joseph William. We have the family history from the time Joseph arrived in Tasmania and would be very happy to share it with any descendants from Peter's family.

Thomas Hopwood and Jane and their daughter Alice were listed as living in the same house in Walton-le-Dale in 1841. I found a birth for Alice in 1839 at Manchester Cathedral. Maybe the children you found James 1844, and three baptised all on the same day? 24 Aug 1851 are children of Thomas and Jane. I wish I knew what relationship they are to Peter, Mary, Joseph and Sarah???

I am also interested in finding Peter's parents. I did find the William and Martha that David mentions in his message but there is no other information which would give me a link to our Peter.

Many thanks for your help

Hi Barbara..

In the title of your thread you say that Peter Hopwood was born in Stockport so may I suggest that you contact the Stockport Heritage Library...they hold all sources of information including parish records etc etc and the staff are most helpful.

The email address is..

[email protected]

Linda in the Midlands....if this is of interest to you and if you do not already know ( apologies if you do)...Stockport has the only museum in the UK dedicated to the hatting industry. The website address is

http://www.hatworks.org.uk/

and well worth a visit if you are ever in the area.

Linda

All I could think of was that they had changed their surname, but like you guys, I couldn't find any fmaily that matched.



sylvia

some areas of Yorks & staffs bmd sites have death age Cheshire has all death ages. Don't know about any of the other bmd sites but there may be others which do

for ref lancashirebmd.org.uk

Thanks for the details on the deaths Ann! (I'm so unlucky, by the time I get back to 1800 I have ancestors in a dozen counties ... Lancashire not being one of them.)

Australian death certificates are a marvel - they give parents' names (of course, where the informant knew) and the mother's birth surname is what that name is, for one thing. I know for NSW at least it also lists the names of children. I believe the old ones sometimes also say where the deceased originated and how long in Australia.

when Barbara says on Joseph's death cert in Australia his mother was listed as Mary Turner, does that mean that was her current name or her maiden name. Not familiar with what is on Australian certs.

the death ages are shown for ALL years on lancs bmd - can be v useful

1854
Mary in Preston age 67
Mary in Heywood age 73
Sarah Ann age 40

plus a Sarah Ellen age 0 in Burnley

Lancsann

Sylvia asked me to take a peek when she first looked at the thread.

There are only two Hopwood marriages in Preston reg dist to 1865, an Ann and a Robert, so no children's marriages or parents' remarriages there, it seems.

For deaths for relevant names, there are a Mary and a Sarah Ann, both in 1854. Ages aren't shown in the index until the mid-1860s.

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

I'm stumped too. No chance they joined Joseph in Tasmania I suppose? When did he leave England?


Searching in the IGI for children's births, there is this group baptism with parents Thomas and Jane:

Birth/Christening, 1845 - 1865, British Isles
Father: Thomas Hopwood, Mother: Jane
all are in batch C073543
1. WILLIAM HOPWOOD - Christening: 24 AUG 1851 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England
2. SARAH HOPWOOD - Christening: 24 AUG 1851 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England
3. SAMUEL HOPWOOD - Christening: 24 AUG 1851 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England

plus this one in batch C073541
JAMES HOPWOOD - Christening: 08 SEP 1844 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England

But no sign of those children in 1851 either!

No luck finding baptisms of children of Peter and Mary.

Headscratch!

could the family have changed their name to Turner or was that Mary's maiden name

the ages of those Mary Hopwood deaths are from cheshirebmd

1842 Mary age 38

1843 Mary age 0 and Mary age 54

there were one or two Hopwood hatters around

found this one on lan-opc

Baptisms: 17 Jul 1836 St Lawrence, Denton, Lancashire, England
William Hopwood - Child of Thomas Hopwood & Mary
Born: 22 Apr 1836
Abode: Denton
Occupation: Hatter
Baptised by: W. P. Greswell
Register: Baptism 1829 - 1837, Page 173, Entry 1381
Source: LDS Film 559166

And also one in 1842.

There are two deaths for a Mary Hopwood in 1843 in Stockport.

Sharon

Possible ?? From IGI...


PETER HOPWOOD Pedigree
Male


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth: 06 JAN 1803

Christening: 27 FEB 1803 St Mary, Stockport, Cheshire, England

Death:
Burial:


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Parents:
Father: WILLIAM HOPWOOD Family
Mother: MARTHA


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Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.